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Offline 10 menTopic starter

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Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418272#msg418272
« on: October 30, 2011, 11:14:38 pm »
Our matchups:

Gen 10 men vs  :death Lt. Root Ranger
Lt. dragonsdemesne vs.  :light Spielkind
valuka vs.  :aether UTAlan
bripod vs.  :gravity PuppyChow
bjessee vs.  :earth AnnaMall
ffun vs.  :water The dictator
inthisroom vs.  :entropy Gen. MatrimKK
TheManuz vs.  :darkness Kuroaitou

Ok, so this round we can basically play anything we want again because of the Event Card refilling our Vault almost back to where it was at the beginning of the War. I think I'm going to take our Light stall, some healing is good to have vs Poison. I'm going to think about the other matchup more later on, if you have ideas, post them here. :)
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Offline ffun

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418384#msg418384
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 02:06:50 am »
Heh, water again! As much as I love our Aether deck (it brought me 2 wins so far), I would be horribly disappointed with water if they bring yet another deck that will be fragile against it, specially with all the new cards form this round's event they can work with... I'll think about some options, but it's probably time for something new against them.

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418412#msg418412
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 03:23:15 am »
 :death : Death's been a fan of the stalls, like bonebolt or pandebonium, but they've also used some quick rush decks.  They get their lieutenant in this duel, but we get our general, so there are some possibilities open to both sides that might not be normally.  I definitely think we need to be prepared for either bone wall or dimensional shield.

 :light : I had a look at the decks Light used in round 3.  I think that I need to be prepared for stalls, both firestall and big creatures, as well as crusader-based decks.  Finding a deck that can beat both a stall and the creature decks might be tricky.  I'm a fan of the novabow as a good general-purpose deck, and I'd love to play one here; I think with reverse times for creatures and explosions for fireshields/sancs, I could succeed against any of those.

 :aether : Grabbow, devtal, bonebolt, and fractal phoenix / charger were used last round.  I'd be pretty happy about discord against all of those except grabbow, and even there it's decent.  A novabow or else a time/entropy duo seems like a good bet to me.

 :gravity : A huge joke in the first two rounds, gravity came back like a boss in round 3, jumping from 11th to 4th place in a single round of 6-0.  I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but they clearly changed something major and it worked in a big way.  Except for one of their novabows, every single deck had 3 upped chargers, and I wouldn't be surprised to see those again.  They clobbered us with Pulverizer and Earthquake last round, so I am against any permanents-based deck like stalls here.  Most of their decks were pure rushing, though they did have one discord/black hole deck.  Looking at what strategies they used last time, I really think that Discord would tear them a new one, more so than aether, so if we have to choose, I'd use discord here.  I had built a novabow with entropy mark for discords (I think I used it vs entropy in round 2) and I think something similar here would be effective.

 :water : Last round, water seemed to focus a lot on slower, creature-based decks with lots of CC like lightning or squids.  We beat their only noncreature deck 3-0, with time/aether stall vs a bolt-based fire/water duo.  I'd like to see some hard CC in this one for squids and things like that.  (unless we build a deck that doesn't care about such things)  Lightnings seem a good choice, for one.  I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but... Discord.  They've got an awful lot of duos; I don't remember seeing many novas at all from them, and I think this is a good choice for us. 

 :entropy : We have to face their general with one of our soldiers here, and entropy is a great team, so this match will be really hard.  There is of course the dreaded novabow, and they've also had monoentropy, entropy/darkness duo, an entropy/light stall I was pretty surprised to see (but it worked)  We beat them with dune scorps vs pandebonium last time, but I'm not sure how that would fare in most other matchups.  With 9 upgrades they could make one mean nova rush.  Something in my gut tells me to expect some sort of stall, though, like that monoentropy diss shield thing or their sanc/miracle stall; I don't know why, except that if I were them, I'd pick it because it might be unexpected.

 :darkness : Last round's decks included devtal, dark/death, duo, novabow, and parallel vampiric dragons. Life gain and devourers have been a problem for us in past rounds, so if they're smart, they'll incorporate that.  If we're smart, we'll counter that.  A Novabow with good creature removal (reverse times for dragons, bolts for vampires/devourers or unupped dragons) seems like a good bet.

Dammit, it seems we need like 50 novas for the decks I just recommended... maybe the time/entropy for aether, so we still get discord?  I dunno... think about it, discuss, and improve.  I'll try to be on lots.

Offline inthisroom

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418797#msg418797
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 11:59:51 pm »
After some discussion with DD and BP, we came up with this for the duel vs Entropy.

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 5ia 5og 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5ri 5rk 5rk 5rn 5rs 5ru 5ru 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5v1 74f 7dm 7dm 8pj

I tried it and it didn't go well at all, it lost 3-5 vs AI3 as I loaded what, after general discussion, should be the most likely deck they'll use vs us on trainer (see deck below). It also lost 0-4 vs the deck MatrimKK used in round 2, so I think that is definitely out of the question.
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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 590 590 593 593 593 593 5og 61q 6u5 6u5 74f 77g 77g 77g 77g 7dm 7dm 8pm

Strangely, the deck below went 4-3 vs MKK's Novabow in AI3 simulation, it is a bit far fetched and the need for 3 Novas to play the Disco can be a handicap, it's all or nothing but when it works, it wins actually quite easily and I just love the idea of using Disco/BH vs Entropy. Please criticise  :P
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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 55q 55q 55q 55v 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rt 5rt 5rt 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 74f 74f 74f 8pl
*Edit* This deck - although quite luck dependant - can work vs his Novabow but I'm afraid he'll expect neurotoxine and will pack one or more purifies to avoid this.

Next, I tried several Novabow combinations of which none was very satisfying, ffun suggested some sort of Light Stall that could be a tedious but viable alternative (5-3 vs NB in trainer) but as Valuka and maybe even 10 men seem to want to use one, their matches might be a safer bet for Light Stall, here's the deck, however.

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 595 595 5ia 5ia 5li 5lm 5lm 5lm 5og 5og 5og 5ro 5ro 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 7k6 7k6 7k6 8pq

Conclusion: Between the difficulty to anticipate what he'll play and the limitations regarding the number of decks of a certain type we can use, we're still searching for anything that has a remote chance to work...

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418831#msg418831
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 01:13:44 am »
I was toying around with some ideas for my match vs light, and came up with this:

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590 593 593 595 595 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5ro 5ro 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 77g 77g 77g 77g 7q5 7q5 8pm


I am expecting either firestall or crusader from light.  (without lt/general ups, i don't think rol/hope is viable)  If I'm against firestall, I have loads of creatures, I can bb/eternity my own stuff if needed, and I have EQs for quanta denial and hourglasses for card advantage.  Against crusaders I have bb/eternity for their creatures, and all the other stuff applies equally usefully.

I tried to come up with a novabow, but I realized I didn't have enough time cards in it, so I scrapped it :p

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418838#msg418838
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 01:30:18 am »
For darkness, I'm expecting lots of devourers and probably vampires, maybe LS dragons.

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rs 5rs 5rs 5ru 5ru 7qc 7qc 7qc 8pl


This is rather silly, but I thought I'd throw it up here for discussion.  It has LOTS of quanta for vs devourers.  It has no nonpillar permanents, so it avoids steal.  It has reverse times to stall the opponent, and pharaohs to spit out scarabs like crazy.  Hopefully the RTs stall long enough that the scarabs can start devouring.

The ghosts could be replaced with hourglasses or eternities or maybe even more factories, but that gives their steals targets, so it's up for debate.

Offline bripod

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418846#msg418846
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 01:54:35 am »
For my match vs Gravity  :gravity , I hit the trainer with this deck and beat the Pulvy deck and DiscoHole fairly well... lemme know what you think.

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5f6 5f6 5f6 5f6 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ro 5ro 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 7ds 7ds 7ds 8po


I'm going to run thru their other decks tonight and tomorrow night.

Grabby Rush isn't much issue either... even w/o Eternity

Offline TheManuz

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418946#msg418946
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 11:51:25 am »
For darkness, I'm expecting lots of devourers and probably vampires, maybe LS dragons.

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This is rather silly, but I thought I'd throw it up here for discussion.  It has LOTS of quanta for vs devourers.  It has no nonpillar permanents, so it avoids steal.  It has reverse times to stall the opponent, and pharaohs to spit out scarabs like crazy.  Hopefully the RTs stall long enough that the scarabs can start devouring.

The ghosts could be replaced with hourglasses or eternities or maybe even more factories, but that gives their steals targets, so it's up for debate.
Maybe we should add a nymph (unupped), so i can draw and avoid steal anyway! Good suggestion, though.

Offline ffun

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418970#msg418970
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 01:56:31 pm »
The problem I see is that, although it's overpillared, it's quite reliant on quanta, so it would suffer a lot against devtal, which is a pretty good choice for darkness against us. And even if it's not devtal, just a couple of devourers will shut your gravity quanta and you won't be able to eat anything with the scarabs.

We can give it a playtest. I'm afraid that with that many pillars and no HG, you can have some pretty depressing draws.

Offline TheManuz

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg418973#msg418973
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 02:08:20 pm »
The problem I see is that, although it's overpillared, it's quite reliant on quanta, so it would suffer a lot against devtal, which is a pretty good choice for darkness against us. And even if it's not devtal, just a couple of devourers will shut your gravity quanta and you won't be able to eat anything with the scarabs.

We can give it a playtest. I'm afraid that with that many pillars and no HG, you can have some pretty depressing draws.
Maybe we can add some scarabs, so we can eat their devourers faster?
We could use sanctuaries, but then they will steal them, and they will screw our quanta AND regenerate health.
I think that we can reverse time devourers to slow them, while we play enough scarabs to eat them and take control.

Offline ffun

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg419020#msg419020
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 04:37:53 pm »
I've been testing this deck with TheManuz against some  :water stuff and it's working pretty well:

by ffun
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590 590 590 590 590 590 593 593 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5ro 5ro 5ro 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 77j 77j 77j 8pm


It won against water/death, water/time and water/aether decks when playtesting. Poison was a big fear of mine and games can be pretty close, but even with a nice hand from Manuz it worked. Maybe it could use some more tweaking and it needs playtesting against a trident deck, but I'm linking it so far (I'll have to fight DD for the quakes though). It will probably loose to a water rush, but I wonder if they'll use one... If DD wants to use the quakes, I think either ghostmare or a grabow would be good second choices (I playtested our grabow against some of these decks and won most games as well).

===============

Later TheManuz and I playtested the Pharaoh deck against darkness. Surprisingly it won 3 times against devtal:

by ffun
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5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uo 5ut 5ut 5ut 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 622 622 622 622 7ta 7ta 7tb 8pu


In the first 2 games I had an horrible hand though, and in the 3rd I locked his quanta, but was one turn short of fractaling my vampires.

Then we had time for one game agains this, which I won:

by ffun
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5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5ul 5up 5up 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5v2 5v2 5v2 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 7t5 7t5 7t5 8pu


LSed his early pharaohs to slow him down and them played cloack, LSed dragon and PU to win. It has a lot of counters to the pharaoh deck, but since we only played one time, we would need to test against it some more. I also think we need more tests against devtal, since the first games were very one-sided due to very bad draws on my part (zero pests/fractal in hand both times and it took a long while to see one).

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Re: Round 4 Strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33159.msg419023#msg419023
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 04:43:08 pm »
I tested this vs aethers Devtal fractix and bonebolt was not so bad (sum 10-3).
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5lf 5lf 5lf 5li 5lm 5lm 5lm 5ro 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rt 5rt 5rt 5s4 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 7k6 7k6 7k6 8pq


Any suggestion?

 

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