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Astraic

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.1 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg147138#msg147138
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2010, 01:19:50 am »
for death knight when you said this creature is now -0l-3 isn't that basically its dead?
i think you meant it gains 0l-3 ?
if it isn't it need somes serious rework...... because you don't want  6 of these instant kills on the field

Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.1 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg147139#msg147139
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2010, 01:21:08 am »
for death knight when you said this creature is now -0l-3 isn't that basically its dead?
i think you meant it gains 0l-3 ?
if it isn't it need somes serious rework...... because you don't want  6 of these instant kills on the field
good call.. thanks i didnt even think of that when i was reworking it. :)

Edited
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Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg154442#msg154442
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 12:07:22 pm »
I need way more comments on these please. i want to put them up in crucible but i am not going thru and making 14 topics if i have no clue how people have reacted to the series.
Krava has taken up the art side of things so far. more will be added as he does them.
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Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg158987#msg158987
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2010, 11:43:57 am »
First, i need more comments. it seems with all the contests/ tournaments/ etc. my series has been kind of lost in shuffle. So if ppl could let me know about the abilities/ how balance/ etc. these are then ill make all the topics to put them in crucible.

Also, Curators could you please put this in the Series section. i asked before but dont see it there. thanks :)
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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176339#msg176339
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 06:14:56 pm »
Well, the last one (the crest) is confusing. I tougth it has a passive and three actives, which would be... new... but after a closer look and reading three times I noticed the + after the 4, which made it clear about the Y and clearing the Y cleared the card. Nice work, but they do need some nerfing...

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176340#msg176340
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 06:21:02 pm »
Well, the last one (the crest) is confusing. I tougth it has a passive and three actives, which would be... new... but after a closer look and reading three times I noticed the + after the 4, which made it clear about the Y and clearing the Y cleared the card. Nice work, but they do need some nerfing...
yea the crest is slightly odd. it was added later after i made the series..
as for nerfing.. examples?  or suggestions..
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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176485#msg176485
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 10:35:19 pm »
Reposting suggestions here.

Card Critique for Knight Series  :light :entropy :death :aether :fire :earth :gravity :air
 :light Blinding Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]-1[ :light bonus]+3[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]-1[ :light bonus]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
It is immediatly apparent that both cards should cost the same.

Now what is the value of the Skill?
The skill is a one sided sundial [Sundial Costs 2 :light so this skill should cost 3 :light]

I think they should both cost 5 :light.

 :entropy Chaos Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=3[attack]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
The upped should cost 1 less than the unupped

Value of Skill
Free mutate per round until it mutates itself but affects both sides.
Mutation benefits are split evenly so the benefit is from disrupting the opponent's plan
I would estimate this as if it were a  :entropy:mutation [Cost +2] ability and a Generate :entropy [Cost +1] ability for a total of a +3 ability

They should cost 6 :entropy|5 :entropy

 :death Death Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=4[attack]+2[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
Cost Upped: 6=5[attack]-1[upgraded]+3[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
The upped should cost the same as the unupped

Value of Skill ( :death :death :death: Snipe) The 5 :death for 5 damage is too much.
Infection [Cost +1]<Snipe [Cost +3?]
Total: +3 skill

They should cost 6 :death

 :aether Dimensional Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+3[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]-1[upgraded]+3[skill]
The upped should cost one more than the unupped

Value of Skill
Healing is worth half of damage.
Poison [Cost 2] -> Purify Counter [Cost 1]
This is better than a purify counter but not much so
Total: +2 skill

They should cost 5 :aether|6 :aether

 :fire Flame Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=2[attack]+0[ :fire +1 attack]+3[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=2[attack]+0[ :fire +1 attack]-1[upgraded]+5[skill]

Value of Skill
Creature only weakened Fire Bolt on a stick
This is too powerful a skill to judge the value of.
This would be used as stalling in a fire bolt OTK deck and thus would be doing 5-10 damage easily.
Maybe make :fire have the repeated 3 damage ability :death now has and have death do -2/-2?

 :earth Golem Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+0[ :earth +1 hp]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=3[attack]+0[ :earth +1 hp]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
Both should have higher hp. They are :earth goshdarnit. 4-6 hp would not be amiss.

Value of Skill
Growth [Cost +2]
Both stats Grow [Cost +1 upped only]
Total: +2|+3

Both should cost 5 :earth and have more hp (but not 7+)

 :gravity Gravition Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=2[attack]+1[HP>5]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]+1[Hp>5]-1[upgraded]+2[skill]

Value of Skill
I do not have anything to reference to determine skill cost but I think it is a weak skill unless the opponent has a means of gaining card advantage [Hourglass, Mindgate, Fast Forward, Fractal]
I would rate the skill as +1

They maybe should cost 4 :gravity|5 :gravity?

 :air Gryphon Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=4[attack]+2[skill]-1[ :air bonus]-1[Expensive]
Cost Upped: 6=5[attack]-1[upgraded]-1[ :air bonus]+3[skill]-1[Expensive]
The upped should cost the same as the unupped.

Value of Skill
Repeatable Reverse Time [Cost +3?]>This[Cost +2?]

They should cost 4 :air

The Knight Series with cost 5|6 :light :entropy :death :aether :earth :gravity :air
 :light Blinding Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. [3atk|5atk]

 :entropy Chaos Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. But the unupped needs a minor nerf [2atk|4atk]

 :death Death Knight
The unnuped needs a minor nerf [3atk|5atk] (This is assuming they still both have identical skills)

 :aether Dimensional Knight
No change needed.

 :earth Golem Knight
Unupped 3|6
Upped 3|7 or 4|6

 :gravity Gravition Knight
Both should gain 1 attack. [3atk|5atk]

 :air Gryphon Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. [5atk|7atk]

Card Critique Knight Series :water  :darkness  :time  :life
 :water Liquid Knight
Cost unupped: 5=3[attack]+2[skill]
Cost upped: 6=4[attack]-1[upgraded]+[3skill]

Skill Value
The skill is akin to a weaker rain of fire combined into 1 card but does not effect hp>2 and effects both sides of the field.
Value: 6[Rain of Fire]-1[ :water is more control than :fire]-1[Weaker]-1[effects both sides/but does not effect hp>2]
Total skill value: 3

Recommended Stats to justify cost
Unupped: 2|3
Upped: 4|4

 :darkness Shadow Knight
Cost unupped 5+4:1[attack]+7[Twin Universe]-1[vulnerable]
Cost upped 6+4:1[attack]+7[Twin Universe]-1[vulnerable]+1[hp>5]-1[upped]

Change skill cost to  :darkness :darkness and give upped 2 attack

 :time Timekeeper Knight
Copying cards is not the realm of :time. That is  :aether's realm

I would recommend :time instead having "When Timekeeper Knight comes into play, draw 1 card."
Then Timekeeper Knight would feel more like time and could have 3|3 and 5|5 stats respectively.

However If you are set on the ability or if you switch Dimensional Knight's ability:

Cost unupped: 5+3:4[4 attack]+4[mini fractal]
Cost upped: 6+2:5[5 attack]+4[mini fractal]-1[upped]

It sounds about right maybe increase attacks to 5|6?

 :life Wild Knight
What if it was adrenalined for free every other turn instead?

Cost unupped 5=6.5[average damage per turn 4 or 9]-1[ :life bonus]
Cost upped 6=9[average damage per turn 6 or 12]-1[ :life bonus]-1[upped]
Cost (upped with 5 attack) 6=8[average damage per turn 5 or 11]-1[ :life bonus]-1[upped]

Conclusion:
If you reduce the attack of the upped by 1 you can make the ability free.


Card Critique Knight Series [other]
Variant Knight
Average effect for unupped: 4|4 for 5 random
Average effect for upped: 5|5 for 6 random

Actual averages are [22/6|4] and [28/6|29/6]

1 quanta is about equivalent to 3 random quanta
unupped should (by these calculations) cost 12 random quanta
upped should also cost 12 random quanta. I think the calculations are failing here. I would be ok with them costing 5|6 if their attack was reduced to 1 and 2.

Knights Crest
1) Too complicated for the community as of now.
2) Imagine an Entropybow fueled by an Entropy Mark, Quanta Towers and Supernova. Gaining 15hp or more per round in healing per Crest is easy.
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Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176687#msg176687
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 02:47:47 am »
Reposting suggestions here.

Card Critique for Knight Series  :light :entropy :death :aether :fire :earth :gravity :air
 :light Blinding Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]-1[ :light bonus]+3[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]-1[ :light bonus]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
It is immediatly apparent that both cards should cost the same.

Now what is the value of the Skill?
The skill is a one sided sundial [Sundial Costs 2 :light so this skill should cost 3 :light]

I think they should both cost 5 :light.

 :entropy Chaos Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=3[attack]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
The upped should cost 1 less than the unupped

Value of Skill
Free mutate per round until it mutates itself but affects both sides.
Mutation benefits are split evenly so the benefit is from disrupting the opponent's plan
I would estimate this as if it were a  :entropy:mutation [Cost +2] ability and a Generate :entropy [Cost +1] ability for a total of a +3 ability

They should cost 6 :entropy|5 :entropy

 :death Death Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=4[attack]+2[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
Cost Upped: 6=5[attack]-1[upgraded]+3[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
The upped should cost the same as the unupped

Value of Skill ( :death :death :death: Snipe) The 5 :death for 5 damage is too much.
Infection [Cost +1]<Snipe [Cost +3?]
Total: +3 skill

They should cost 6 :death

 :aether Dimensional Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+3[skill]-1[Expensive Skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]-1[upgraded]+3[skill]
The upped should cost one more than the unupped

Value of Skill
Healing is worth half of damage.
Poison [Cost 2] -> Purify Counter [Cost 1]
This is better than a purify counter but not much so
Total: +2 skill

They should cost 5 :aether|6 :aether

 :fire Flame Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=2[attack]+0[ :fire +1 attack]+3[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=2[attack]+0[ :fire +1 attack]-1[upgraded]+5[skill]

Value of Skill
Creature only weakened Fire Bolt on a stick
This is too powerful a skill to judge the value of.
This would be used as stalling in a fire bolt OTK deck and thus would be doing 5-10 damage easily.
Maybe make :fire have the repeated 3 damage ability :death now has and have death do -2/-2?

 :earth Golem Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=3[attack]+0[ :earth +1 hp]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=3[attack]+0[ :earth +1 hp]-1[upgraded]+4[skill]
Both should have higher hp. They are :earth goshdarnit. 4-6 hp would not be amiss.

Value of Skill
Growth [Cost +2]
Both stats Grow [Cost +1 upped only]
Total: +2|+3

Both should cost 5 :earth and have more hp (but not 7+)

 :gravity Gravition Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=2[attack]+1[HP>5]+2[skill]
Cost Upped: 6=4[attack]+1[Hp>5]-1[upgraded]+2[skill]

Value of Skill
I do not have anything to reference to determine skill cost but I think it is a weak skill unless the opponent has a means of gaining card advantage [Hourglass, Mindgate, Fast Forward, Fractal]
I would rate the skill as +1

They maybe should cost 4 :gravity|5 :gravity?

 :air Gryphon Knight
Cost Unupped: 5=4[attack]+2[skill]-1[ :air bonus]-1[Expensive]
Cost Upped: 6=5[attack]-1[upgraded]-1[ :air bonus]+3[skill]-1[Expensive]
The upped should cost the same as the unupped.

Value of Skill
Repeatable Reverse Time [Cost +3?]>This[Cost +2?]

They should cost 4 :air

The Knight Series with cost 5|6 :light :entropy :death :aether :earth :gravity :air
 :light Blinding Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. [3atk|5atk]

 :entropy Chaos Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. But the unupped needs a minor nerf [2atk|4atk]

 :death Death Knight
The unnuped needs a minor nerf [3atk|5atk] (This is assuming they still both have identical skills)

 :aether Dimensional Knight
No change needed.

 :earth Golem Knight
Unupped 3|6
Upped 3|7 or 4|6

 :gravity Gravition Knight
Both should gain 1 attack. [3atk|5atk]

 :air Gryphon Knight
The upped should have 2 more attack than the unupped. [5atk|7atk]

Card Critique Knight Series :water  :darkness  :time  :life
 :water Liquid Knight
Cost unupped: 5=3[attack]+2[skill]
Cost upped: 6=4[attack]-1[upgraded]+[3skill]

Skill Value
The skill is akin to a weaker rain of fire combined into 1 card but does not effect hp>2 and effects both sides of the field.
Value: 6[Rain of Fire]-1[ :water is more control than :fire]-1[Weaker]-1[effects both sides/but does not effect hp>2]
Total skill value: 3

Recommended Stats to justify cost
Unupped: 2|3
Upped: 4|4

 :darkness Shadow Knight
Cost unupped 5+4:1[attack]+7[Twin Universe]-1[vulnerable]
Cost upped 6+4:1[attack]+7[Twin Universe]-1[vulnerable]+1[hp>5]-1[upped]

Change skill cost to  :darkness :darkness and give upped 2 attack

 :time Timekeeper Knight
Copying cards is not the realm of :time. That is  :aether's realm

I would recommend :time instead having "When Timekeeper Knight comes into play, draw 1 card."
Then Timekeeper Knight would feel more like time and could have 3|3 and 5|5 stats respectively.

However If you are set on the ability or if you switch Dimensional Knight's ability:

Cost unupped: 5+3:4[4 attack]+4[mini fractal]
Cost upped: 6+2:5[5 attack]+4[mini fractal]-1[upped]

It sounds about right maybe increase attacks to 5|6?

 :life Wild Knight
What if it was adrenalined for free every other turn instead?

Cost unupped 5=6.5[average damage per turn 4 or 9]-1[ :life bonus]
Cost upped 6=9[average damage per turn 6 or 12]-1[ :life bonus]-1[upped]
Cost (upped with 5 attack) 6=8[average damage per turn 5 or 11]-1[ :life bonus]-1[upped]

Conclusion:
If you reduce the attack of the upped by 1 you can make the ability free.


Card Critique Knight Series [other]
Variant Knight
Average effect for unupped: 4|4 for 5 random
Average effect for upped: 5|5 for 6 random

Actual averages are [22/6|4] and [28/6|29/6]

1 quanta is about equivalent to 3 random quanta
unupped should (by these calculations) cost 12 random quanta
upped should also cost 12 random quanta. I think the calculations are failing here. I would be ok with them costing 5|6 if their attack was reduced to 1 and 2.

Knights Crest
1) Too complicated for the community as of now.
2) Imagine an Entropybow fueled by an Entropy Mark, Quanta Towers and Supernova. Gaining 15hp or more per round in healing per Crest is easy.
Ty for the comments. i shall read them probably saturday to respond because im going to be busy without internet until then.
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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176838#msg176838
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2010, 07:41:15 am »
I thought humans weren't alowed for the game.
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Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg176903#msg176903
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2010, 12:16:29 pm »
I thought humans weren't alowed for the game.
they are not humans.. they are knights... look at art that is done.... none are human..
nymphs are way more human than these.
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Offline AnonymousRevival

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg180820#msg180820
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 01:28:37 am »
Uhhh.......Isn't a knight a human? You can makt it a humanoid if you want.
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Offline bored_ninja777Topic starter

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Re: Knights series versoin 1.2 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11810.msg180855#msg180855
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 02:50:51 am »
Uhhh.......Isn't a knight a human? You can makt it a humanoid if you want.
a knight is a status.. not a human.. its part of the rankings in the middle ages. none of them are human... as i said just above.. plz read b4 commenting.
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