(Entropy) Sir Valimont 2 - 0 Klaymore (Air)

[Acsabi44]

my 2 cents:
I was in the chatroom while the matches, and I followed the events closely as they were going on.

- Klaymore said that SV's deck is very strong versus him.
- while the in second match, both lamented about bad luck on their opening hands(or something like that).
- From the things they said on chat, I was assuming Klaymore lost the second too.
- SV left for a bit (probably to make the post)
- not much after that, klaymore claimed that he won
- he couldn't post a screenie right away bc he didn't know how to do it. I had to explain him about the printscreen button, saving it in mspaint, uploading it and posting the link. (no chatlogs about that bc we were PMing)
- after this, he posted a SS that showed a clear win. If I were a warmaster, and I didn't know anything else about those matches, I'd give him the win.
- I don't know what would a SS taken immediately after the desync show.
- I also don't know if SV really won while Klaymore saw something different due to some desync-related game issue.
- SV came back and was surprised about the ongoing events. He claimed a win.
- the comunity currently on chat agreed that the best would be a rematch.

That's the story from my perspective.

EDIT: Ohh yeah, and not long after the issue, I proposed that every player, in every match, should take screenshots every now and then (I SS every turn of my matches) so we can trackback the events in the case of a desync and see how the match escalated even before the problem.

[Kurohami]

I will repeat myself so it is clear to everyone: when the desync happened I WAS in a 'bad' situation by which I mean that SV had lowered me to very few hp. I never contested that and my screenshot purpose was not to prove that I never lost those hp.

The screenshot only show that I was not killed and the AI plays does not change anything to that.

Deflag bond only changes the hp I regain on my turn, not what SV inflicts me at his. (moreover deflag was used on bond, you can see that I still have the blocked Owl Eye on the screenie)
the AI did not have to play / buff / missuse the Doll since it was already in play and buffed long ago.

Nyma: I did say on the chat that I did not see the game ending by SV 's win which is contesting his win, I had no other choice than to tell it on the forum since he posted very quickly after the match.

Zeru: I did not mean to be insulting: YOUR player has expressed his lack of intention to play rematch and if I am not wrong: refusing to play = forfeit... How is that insulting to ask if that is still his final decision?

The sentence Zeru quoted is the insult, not what you just said.

[Boingo]

So, just to be clear, we're 3 pages into this and it's still 1-0?  How about this gets finished.

[Scaredgirl]

Desync happened. Things are unclear. Rematch.

Simple as pie.

[kobisjeruk]

drats! i'm out of popcorn on page 1...now i need something else to chew on

On-topic: klaymore might lie about not knowing how to take screenshot (desync on the other hand is highly probable and could go unnoticed since not all desync follow the same traits i.e. you might think everything is fine and dandy and that you're still playing a normal game) but theres a very good explanation IF he is indeed telling the truth
there is just a small window of opportunity to capture the screen while the timer is still in red (10secs?)
those who doesnt know will start to panic and ask around for help in chat, by this time...the countdown has already passed (15:17:17 -> 15:17:35 = 18secs) so what are they supposed to do? just let it go when its clearly (for them anyway) still going on and they might still be able to push through for the win?

[Memorystick]

Good match but for some reason I saw Valimont desync our last game... and I won against AI so I dunno...

(http://b.imagehost.org/view/0992/klay-Val)


Edit: my deck

Code: [Select]

5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5lk 5lk 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ol 5ol 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu

Looking at this image, combined with both decks, I can safely say there are six pends, one hope, and one wings left in klaymore's deck, and that it's been less than six turns since the desynch, due to the delayed EE. The fifth bond had to have been deflaged, because hope is immaterial, both EEs are shown, the AI-Valimont's empty hand, and the fact that the AI targets every other permanent above pendulums and pillars. I think it's safe to say that wings would not have been used, due to dragons and dolls passing through them, making the only use for them blocking discord. I feel it's foolish to make such claims without analyzing what is left in the deck, the deck itself, and how a player plays vs an AI, and the analysis of the screenshot shows that. I understand you're frustrated about your teams' mistakes this round, but there's no reason to make statements like this:

EDIT: Apparently klaymore now claims there was a desync after the last turn. The only possible way he could win would be for AI to conveniently not Deflag his Bond, allowing him to heal. I think it's pretty obvious from a good sportsmanship perspective that I would win.

Furthermore, I find it rather ridiculous that his screenshot below is a good 10 turns after the supposed "desync" which is lovely because he waited until he healed all the way up, killed my Voodoo, and made it look like it wasn't close. In fact it was a lopsided victory in the opposite direction.

Especially since both the deck and the screenshot show otherwise. Sure, you would have won if he hadn't drawn and/or played a Hope or the fifth bond that turn- but from the look of it, he did.

That aside, this looks like an interesting matchup, and I would like to see the end result.
And finally, just in case you thought I was being inflammatory.... I calls 'em as I sees 'em

[QuantumT]

Given that SV has no evidence whatsoever to backup his story and klaymore has his screenshot, SV should consider himself lucky to be receiving a regame instead of a loss. From our perspective, maybe there was no desync and SV just dropped out, klaymore really did win the match, and SV made the whole thing up (not saying it's true, but it's possible).

I've lost matches for failing to provide a screenshot before, and SV has no right to claim a win without one. What makes it much worse is that he not only claims one, he goes on to accuse klaymore of cheating, when klaymore is already giving him the gift of a redo instead of calling for a win.

The sentence Zeru quoted is the insult, not what you just said.

It's not really fair to expect klaymore to not get a little annoyed when he was accused of cheating with absolutely no evidence.

[Zeru]

From our perspective, maybe there was no desync and SV just dropped out, klaymore really did win the match, and SV made the whole thing up.

From my perspective he won the match, but didn't take a screenshot, and his opponent is shamelessly using this as an excuse for a rematch. I'm not surprised that Sir does not want to play with him ever again.

SV should consider himself lucky to be receiving a regame instead of a loss.

Healing yourself up from ~10 to 100 hp, casting hope and killing off all the creatures of a mentally displaced AI is for most evidence of unclear behaviour. If he took a screenshot of a desynch, we would have a base to a discussion here.

In here we have a situation like this. One person won but was naive enough not to take a screenshot. He won, but the game didn't manage to send that info on time to the second player, forcing a desynch. The AI played differently, losing it's possibility to win. Player 2 does not take a screenshot. Player 2 then continues to play the AI, slowly crushes it's offence, and in the winning turn makes a screen that suggest incredible advantage. Quantum, do you really think that my defence of SV comes from my bias? You really think that we are "lucky" to have a rematch?

[pervepic]

Team  , what did you eat during thanksgiving that this had affected your clear mind in that way?
Just look at the screenshot Klaymore posted, apologize to him and replay. Period.

[QuantumT]

From our perspective, maybe there was no desync and SV just dropped out, klaymore really did win the match, and SV made the whole thing up.

From my perspective he won the match, but didn't take a screenshot, and his opponent is shamelessly using this as an excuse for a rematch. I'm not surprised that Sir does not want to play with him ever again.

Shamelessly using it as an excuse? Are you also claiming that he faked his screenshot then? It at least suggests a possibility for klaymore to win.

Accusing someone of cheating is a very serious matter, and not one that should be done with absolutely no evidence.

SV should consider himself lucky to be receiving a regame instead of a loss.

Healing yourself up from ~10 to 100 hp, casting hope and killing off all the creatures of a mentally displaced AI is for most evidence of unclear behaviour. If he took a screenshot of a desynch, we would have a base to a discussion here.

In here we have a situation like this. One person won but was naive enough not to take a screenshot. He won, but the game didn't manage to send that info on time to the second player, forcing a desynch. The AI played differently, losing it's possibility to win. Player 2 does not take a screenshot. Player 2 then continues to play the AI, slowly crushes it's offence, and in the winning turn makes a screen that suggest incredible advantage. Quantum, do you really think that my defence of SV comes from my bias? You really think that we are "lucky" to have a rematch?

It's merely a misinterpretation of the correct behavior. Generally if two players both acknowledge that a desync has occurred, you play it out against the ai to see what happens. You do this because if one player loses to the ai anyway, most will be honest and admit it (at least that's the hope). Klaymore didn't realize that this was a special case, so he followed this protocol.

Anyways, healing up to 100 hp doesn't exactly take a long time with some queens and 4 bonds on the field (with 12 creatures for example it takes 2 turns). The fact that it wasn't very many turns later is also shown by the still delayed weapon.

Let's be fair and consider the evidence. For Klaymore, we have a screenshot taken a couple turns later, which is admittedly after the desync occurred. For Sir Valimont, we have his word. And that's it.

I've lost pvp games when almost exactly this happened, which is why I said he's lucky. Maybe that wasn't appropriate, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Klaymore plays hope and SV sees that the game is lost, forces a desync, drops, then claims he won. Why don't I claim this happened? Because I have no evidence that this occurred, just like you have no evidence that klaymore said didn't happen.

Again, I'm not suggesting that this did occur, merely saying that it would have the same result

[Daxx]

From my perspective he won the match, but didn't take a screenshot, and his opponent is shamelessly using this as an excuse for a rematch.

I understand that you want to defend your teammate, but it doesn't seem obvious at all that he won, based on what we know about the match. It is unclear whether SV would have ever been able to take him down to 0HP had the desync not happened. It seems that the distorted claims that SV made puts his side of the story in doubt as well.

Play like sportsmen, and redo the match like Scaredgirl asked.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I for one know that dolls and healing don't go well together, I don't know about bonds, but vampires + gravity pulled doll is practically auto desync (one side heals, other doesn't show it as healing).

So I would suggest posting any SS of winning with dolls since they're slightly bugged
With lack of such evidence a replay should only be logical.

Bottom line:
As long as Gravity Pulled Voodoo dolls aren't bug free, please take an SS before you win using them.

Not everyone may be equally aware of dolls being slightly bugged, which is why I'm stating this.
I think it's likely both speak the truth, and of course there was a desync since SV can't respond if his side shows he has won.