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Scaredgirl

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403462#msg403462
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2011, 03:36:18 pm »
You don't have to forsake science to choose religion. You may have to rethink some aspects of science, and the same with some aspects of the religion.
This. The majority of atheists/agnostics in this community seem to be under the impression that religion and science are mutually exclusive when they are not even close to being that.
Religion and science cannot really co-exist. Anyone who truly believes in the scientific method, should not believe in religion. Period. Religion is based on faith and science is based on evidence, which are the opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure anyone can say they believe in both, but they actually don't. By believing in God, they forfeit the basic principle of science: evidence. People who say they believe in both, have basically created their own version of science that does not work like science is supposed to work.

Offline TheManuz

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403469#msg403469
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2011, 03:45:23 pm »
You don't have to forsake science to choose religion. You may have to rethink some aspects of science, and the same with some aspects of the religion.
This. The majority of atheists/agnostics in this community seem to be under the impression that religion and science are mutually exclusive when they are not even close to being that.
Religion and science cannot really co-exist. Anyone who truly believes in the scientific method, should not believe in religion. Period. Religion is based on faith and science is based on evidence, which are the opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure anyone can say they believe in both, but they actually don't. By believing in God, they forfeit the basic principle of science: evidence. People who say they believe in both, have basically created their own version of science that does not work like science is supposed to work.
I find difficulty in explaining my thought, mainly because english is not my native language, but Scaredgirl said what i tried to explain.
Totally agree, especially with "own version of science".
This is true for religion too, people accept only what they like about religion. If you applied bible entirely, you should kill homosexuals and forbid women from contradicting men. Even religion is subject to "own version".

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403475#msg403475
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2011, 03:55:17 pm »
You don't have to forsake science to choose religion. You may have to rethink some aspects of science, and the same with some aspects of the religion.
This. The majority of atheists/agnostics in this community seem to be under the impression that religion and science are mutually exclusive when they are not even close to being that.
Religion and science cannot really co-exist. Anyone who truly believes in the scientific method, should not believe in religion. Period. Religion is based on faith and science is based on evidence, which are the opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure anyone can say they believe in both, but they actually don't. By believing in God, they forfeit the basic principle of science: evidence. People who say they believe in both, have basically created their own version of science that does not work like science is supposed to work.
However, there is never enough evidence to conclusively prove the reason behind the outcome of experiments. Anyone who "truly believes in the scientific method" would be conducting test after test after test to not go further the field of general knowledge but to go deeper into what conditions are necessary for something to occur. However, new advancements in modern science are built on accepting theories based on what has shown to be consistent, and the only experiments that come close to proving those theories are done by high-school students learning the fundamental theories by doing experiments where the conditions are so controlled that outcome is certain.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403521#msg403521
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2011, 05:46:15 pm »
This. I believe that TheManuz is off-track in his interpretation of the boundaries/overlaps of science and religion. They're the answers to two different questions; to say "the compromise [between science and religion] does not exist" is like saying, "If you choose Answer A on Question 9, then you cannot possibly choose Answer B on Question 10 without making a contradiction," where Question 9 is about your favorite color and Question 10 is about your favorite animal.
You would be right if religion didn't try to answer to "how" questions. "How" is science field.
"Why" is religion field.
Religion saying how (creationism) is in conflict with science. Obviously you can accept only a part of religion and say there is no conflict. But if you fully accept religion, you should acknowledge there is a conflict with science.
Religion does not inherently have to answer How questions in a way that contradicts Science. Some Religions happen to do so, some do not.

You don't have to forsake science to choose religion. You may have to rethink some aspects of science, and the same with some aspects of the religion.
This. The majority of atheists/agnostics in this community seem to be under the impression that religion and science are mutually exclusive when they are not even close to being that.
Religion and science cannot really co-exist. Anyone who truly believes in the scientific method, should not believe in religion. Period. Religion is based on faith and science is based on evidence, which are the opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure anyone can say they believe in both, but they actually don't. By believing in God, they forfeit the basic principle of science: evidence. People who say they believe in both, have basically created their own version of science that does not work like science is supposed to work.
Science is a method for obtaining true falsifiable knowledge that is possible to obtain through disproof of false falsifiable beliefs. All searches for knowledge that is not falsifiable can and must use alternative methods. Note that there is no conflict when the two methods are aimed at different types of knowledge. Science and Philosophy can easily coexist. Faith is an alternate method that does not have to be used for falsifiable knowledge. Religion and Science can coexist as well.
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Offline glopso

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403631#msg403631
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2011, 09:01:04 pm »

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403676#msg403676
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2011, 10:25:38 pm »
I wonder... I believe in God. I also believe in gravity as defined by the scientific community... Does this mean I dont exist  :o
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403842#msg403842
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 03:56:23 am »
If one believes in religion completely, then he or she would not even bother with science at all. There will be no need to find out how or why anything works, because a wizard God did all of it. Doesn't total faith make science pointless?
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403857#msg403857
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2011, 04:32:49 am »
If one believes in religion completely, then he or she would not even bother with science at all. There will be no need to find out how or why anything works, because a wizard God did all of it. Doesn't total faith make science pointless?
Most religions do not answer every conceivable question. (Even saying "God caused ___." does not always explain "How does ___ work?") Some of those questions are about falsifiable knowledge. Gregor Mendel is my favorite example.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403884#msg403884
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2011, 05:32:47 am »
And don't say that "science can't explain everything" or "some things can only be explained as God's doing". How do you know that? While it's entirely possible that a wizard God did it, it's also entirely possible that our science isn't advanced enough yet. Emphasis on the "yet". Science actively tries to find out why, while religion doesn't even try. Why should I stop using the scientific method?
How do you know science and God don't go together? or should i more say that logic and God don't go together. EVerything scientific and logical flow from God's nature. I don't see a huge reason why you should stop using the scientific method. The only reason you should stop using it is if you are using it wrongly.(not saying you're using it wrongly((in all aspects, since i don't know you personally)))

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403885#msg403885
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2011, 05:36:38 am »
You don't have to forsake science to choose religion. You may have to rethink some aspects of science, and the same with some aspects of the religion.
This. The majority of atheists/agnostics in this community seem to be under the impression that religion and science are mutually exclusive when they are not even close to being that.
Religion and science cannot really co-exist. Anyone who truly believes in the scientific method, should not believe in religion. Period. Religion is based on faith and science is based on evidence, which are the opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure anyone can say they believe in both, but they actually don't. By believing in God, they forfeit the basic principle of science: evidence. People who say they believe in both, have basically created their own version of science that does not work like science is supposed to work.
but don't you have faith in science, or do you just use it for no reason at all and you don't even trust it? Many evolutionists have more faith in evolution than some christians do in God, which i find very sad. You have faith that tomorrow will be the same as today, in the way that our laws will stay the same.

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403892#msg403892
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2011, 05:57:14 am »
Just tossing this idea a few friends and I more or less agree upon (agnostic, atheist, and christian) out here: If you follow the Christian Bible exactly (which is the religion we seem to be talking about here) No one should eat pork or masturbate or they're doomed to hell for all eternity. If you follow science exactly the only reason for a human to do anything (The meaning of life as you might say) is to continue the species, essentially meaning you should spend your days farming, having sex, and staying warm. I find this interesting.

As for the question asked in the initial post, I don't believe you should because you don't want to. You think of God as a wizard who just magicked everything into being, you have no faith nor wish to have any. So don't. I believe in the Bible in a highly metaphorical sense than can coexist with science (what's 7 days to an infinitely powerful being, and before the earth and sun were there to make days?) I believe in God in part because when you hit the base of things scientists just have things they must just accept are true. Prove everything you are experiencing isn't just one big dream. Pascal's wager or gamble as someone earlier mentioned is another good reason I believe. I hope this helps, and please take out the stricken out "wizard" before god, that's just baiting angry response.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg403893#msg403893
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 06:00:02 am »
Just tossing this idea a few friends and I more or less agree upon (agnostic, atheist, and christian) out here: If you follow the Christian Bible exactly (which is the religion we seem to be talking about here) No one should eat pork or masturbate or they're doomed to hell for all eternity. If you follow science exactly the only reason for a human to do anything (The meaning of life as you might say) is to continue the species, essentially meaning you should spend your days farming, having sex, and staying warm. I find this interesting.
Science makes descriptive not normative claims. This misunderstanding you are making is erroneous and leads to behavior most would see as immoral (Eugenics).
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