Teaching Kids

[maverixk]

Ok, so something that I've heard from atheists to theists is that parents are flat-out wrong in teaching their kids that the religion they believe in is the correct way to live their life. Such as a Christian mom and dad take their son or daughter to church to teach them all that stuff. I've heard people say that because the parents are basically forcing the kids to, in my example, go to church then they are forcing their beliefs upon their children without regards for the child's personal belief. Any thoughts?

[Camoninja]

I think it's more that the parents are exposing their kids to their beliefs. The thing that makes it so "extreme" is that the kids are completely neutral to begin with, not knowing anything about religion, and they trust their parents about almost everything when they are young. When exposed to one point of view, that becomes the only one they know, and if it sounds reasonable to them, they will probably back it up. The kids are inevitably going to be exposed to religion one way or another, so I think it's fair that the parents let the kids first see the point that the parents see is most reasonable.

[Nepycros]

Still, I wouldn't've minded if my parents told me I had a choice. >.>

[maverixk]

Still, I wouldn't've minded if my parents told me I had a choice. >.>

Well, I know where you're coming from, but it's not like they told you you didn't is it? I know that's kind of a poor argument, but still.

[johannhowitzer]

Let's flip this on its head, though.  What about if atheist parents teach their kids they have a choice, and one of their kids decides to become a Muslim?  My hypocrisy-sense tingles whenever I hear people complain about parents teaching kids about anything they object to - all parents can ever do is teach what they think is the truth.  Now, if you have parents who don't really believe what they teach, or if you have parents who are being manipulative intentionally, that's another issue.

As for forcing kids to go to church, synagogue, the local mosque... we have children being forced to do all kinds of things they don't want, and things that may be a waste of time or even harmful.  Children with poor self-esteem and physique being forced to go out for sports, which gets them picked on even more; children who'd rather be out playing with their friends being forced to learn the clarinet; children being left in a daycare all day because daddy's at work and mommy doesn't want to put up with them.  I think being forced to attend a religious service once a week is kind of minor compared to these few examples.  I've been to churches, mosques, synagogues, and some other kinds of religious gatherings, and I found it very educational.  But because some people get all bent out of shape about religion in general, this gets blown out of proportion.

[Cel]

One of the things I appreciate the most and feel thankful to my parents for every day is that they gave me the choice, they showed me what they thought was right, they told me what they thought was wrong, and they let me choose. When it first became apparent to me that I had a choice, I stopped going to church, however, that understanding that God didn't force you to pray and that he gave us free choice for a reason was what lead me to become a Christian. My brother gave the exact same testimony when asked why he became a Christian.
  This has led me to believe that it was the perfectly right choice for my parents to do, and when I have kids I will be certain to do the same.

[Rutarete]

My thoughts are that since most parents expose their children when they're young, they don't realize the choice because neuroplasticity forms to the recent exposure. I was raised Jewish, but i'm not devout, and I know that I have a choice.

[Astrocyte]

I had this great big paragraph typed out, but it basically came down to this:
To a believer, religion is a truth, so there is no harm in teaching kids truth.
To an atheist, religion is a falsehood, so there is harm in teaching kids something that is not true.

Still, I wouldn't've minded if my parents told me I had a choice. >.>

Well, I know where you're coming from, but it's not like they told you you didn't is it? I know that's kind of a poor argument, but still.

Do you really expect young Nepy to have said "But mom and dad, don't I have any other choices?" And if he had, and his parents had replied "No, you do not," what was he supposed to do then?

Practically, most parents and families don't exactly take it well even when their fully-grown adult children have completely rational reasons for not following the parents' religion.
I do not know of any parents who bring their kids to services and present it as "I think this is the truth, but you should listen and consider what this religion has to say and decide for yourself; I will not be upset if you want to try other religions or if you do not choose the same path I've chosen" -- they probably exist, but they are probably also an extremely tiny minority.

Let's flip this on its head, though.  What about if atheist parents teach their kids they have a choice, and one of their kids decides to become a Muslim?  My hypocrisy-sense tingles whenever I hear people complain about parents teaching kids about anything they object to - all parents can ever do is teach what they think is the truth.

Why would the atheist parents' reaction be any different from that of a pair of Muslim parents teaching their kids they have a choice, and one of their kids deciding to become an atheist? It's not as though atheists have the market cornered on hypocrisy or moral outrage.

As for forcing kids to go to church, synagogue, the local mosque... we have children being forced to do all kinds of things they don't want, and things that may be a waste of time or even harmful.  Children with poor self-esteem and physique being forced to go out for sports, which gets them picked on even more; children who'd rather be out playing with their friends being forced to learn the clarinet; children being left in a daycare all day because daddy's at work and mommy doesn't want to put up with them.  I think being forced to attend a religious service once a week is kind of minor compared to these few examples.  I've been to churches, mosques, synagogues, and some other kinds of religious gatherings, and I found it very educational.  But because some people get all bent out of shape about religion in general, this gets blown out of proportion.

Any activity has the potential to be harmful; the atheist objection is that taking children to religious services is always harmful. Believers obviously do not think that religion is harmful, and so for them this objection is going to be absurd and offensive.

[johannhowitzer]

Why would the atheist parents' reaction be any different from that of a pair of Muslim parents teaching their kids they have a choice, and one of their kids deciding to become an atheist? It's not as though atheists have the market cornered on hypocrisy or moral outrage.

Exactly.

Any activity has the potential to be harmful; the atheist objection is that taking children to religious services is always harmful. Believers obviously do not think that religion is harmful, and so for them this objection is going to be absurd and offensive.

Again, exactly.

I believe the real problem here lies in the fact that both "sides" rarely make any effort to see the other's intent.  If they did, it would be obvious that we're really all the same.

[maverixk]

Again, exactly.

I believe the real problem here lies in the fact that both "sides" rarely make any effort to see the other's intent.  If they did, it would be obvious that we're really all the same.

In your own words, or word, "Exactly"
The intent of the christian parents, or the muslim parents, etc is to help their children find the right path and, overall, have a better life.
The intent of the atheists is to avoid teaching their kids "fairy tales" or such, and to help them develop as a person.

[BluePriest]

Although old, I created a topic very close to this a while back. Just posting it for a reference so you can read other points people made. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8620.0.html

[OldTrees]

Agents (beings with the ability to make decisions) require a means of determining what they will do. Agents require a means of reducing mutually exclusive options down to 1 decision. Agents need a default method until they are Willing and Capable of creating such a method for themselves. Guardians of those Agents probably should provide the Agent with a default method until the Agent is Willing and Capable of creating one of their own. At that point Guardians probably should accept the Agent's choice of method. Moral Philosophies are one method of narrowing down the options. Religion is one source of Moral Philosophies.

Conclusion: Parents should teach their Moral Philosophies to their children. The parents should discuss Moral Philosophy when the child is willing and capable of creating a Moral Philosophy for themselves.

Note: Parents should admitting their Moral Philosophy might not be right if they can maintain the level of authority necessary for raising the child after doing so.