Teaching Kids

[BluePriest]

I had this great big paragraph typed out, but it basically came down to this:
To a believer, religion is a truth, so there is no harm in teaching kids truth.
To an atheist, religion is a falsehood, so there is harm in teaching kids something that is not true.

Qft. This sums it up. If you really believe what you believe, and dont just believe because its convenient, then it would be ridiculous to not raise your child up with your beliefs. In fact, I would say the best option would be to MAKE SURE they know there are many different viewpoints, as I feel otherwise, there would be a better chance of them leaving once they discover how diverse the world really is. Explaining them in depth wouldnt be neccessary unless they were curious, but if they feel they were essentially trapped in a religous belief, I tend to think the instant they have freedom they will escape.

Note: Parents should admitting their Moral Philosophy might not be right if they can maintain the level of authority necessary for raising the child after doing so.

Eh, if I had doubt in what I believe, then I would never preach another sermon again. I wouldnt want to hear a sermon from one who isnt 100% sure of what they believe (at least at the core). I didnt explain that very good... If you have the occasional doubt, then its understandable as long as you always replace that doubt with faith. If you live in a constant state of doubt however, that is when the problem arises. I would be lieing to my child (if I had one) if I tried to admit my moral philosophy might not be right.  Parents dont need to stay neutral.

[johannhowitzer]

Eh, if I had doubt in what I believe, then I would never preach another sermon again. I wouldnt want to hear a sermon from one who isnt 100% sure of what they believe (at least at the core). I didnt explain that very good... If you have the occasional doubt, then its understandable as long as you always replace that doubt with faith. If you live in a constant state of doubt however, that is when the problem arises. I would be lieing to my child (if I had one) if I tried to admit my moral philosophy might not be right.  Parents dont need to stay neutral.

There's a difference between known reasonable doubt and the ever-present possibility of being mistaken by virtue of not having all the information - and thus there's a middle ground here.  I don't think OT is saying you say to your kid, "I'm not entirely sure about this myself," but more like, "I believe this to be true, and here's why - but I don't know everything.  Always be investigating what you believe to be true."  And of course the parents also ought to model that investigative spirit for their children.  This is beneficial to everyone, and no one can legitimately object to it: those who hold certain religious beliefs should not hold them for no good reason, and those who do not believe in anything supernatural or the concept of a deity should likewise be intellectually honest about it, and have a strong foundation.  If you are afraid of investigating because you might turn out to be wrong, you are on VERY shaky ground.

I've really never understood why people get bent out of shape about religion, politics, etc. - emotion should have no place at all.  If you're offended by something that isn't actually a crime, you're only doing yourself harm.  Who cares if atheists think you're backward and superstitious?  Know what you believe.  Who cares if religious people think you're a "pagan" who is going to end up somewhere terrible?  Know what you believe.  And know who you are - when you know that, no one can shake you.

As I've said before, we don't believe things by choice unless we're in denial.  We believe them because they seem most likely to be true.  This has become convoluted in many cultures today, especially the advanced Western nations, and this is one of those points that's so fundamental to truth-seeking as a First Principle that if it's not in place, gross error is likely.

[OldTrees]

Thanks johannhowitzer for clarifying my point.

While I agree with the expansion on my claim I was making a lesser claim.
"I believe this to be true - but I am not necessarily infallible."

I would greatly appreciate if such parents when the full 9 yards with the following.
"I believe this to be true, and here's why - but I don't know everything.  Always be investigating what you believe to be true."

[Thalas]

Any activity has the potential to be harmful; the atheist objection is that taking children to religious services is always harmful. Believers obviously do not think that religion is harmful, and so for them this objection is going to be absurd and offensive.

I'm atheist and I don't think religion is overral harmful. (No, I don't mean religion is good but church is bad) Religion gives false hope, unites community and encourages people to obey laws( In era of peace at least)
But back to topic. I think children should be raised by human morals, and I don't see problem with religions. As most of the religions say, don't steal, don't kill, don't envy, don't be greedy etc.
(Judaism forbids pork, then if parents don't want give pork to child they don't have to, lot of vegetarians don't give meat to their children and no one cares)  Then when children have basic range of knowledge I would present all religions+atheism, agnosticism etc.(Without any lies) to my child and let him choose and if he doesn't want to choose I won't force him/her, I'm sure that he/she chooses when he/she grows.

[Astrocyte]

if they feel they were essentially trapped in a religous belief, I tend to think the instant they have freedom they will escape.

What's interesting is that even when people escape (heh) their parents' religion, they seem to come drifting back when it's time to get married or have kids, unless they've fully committed to a different religion by that point.

An Episcopal seminary student once told me that the Episcopal church actually banks on this and so their clergy do their best to show that if you've ever considered yourself an Episcopalian, then the church will always be there for you (at least, this is what the guy told me; he might only be speaking for his seminary, his class, or himself -- if any Episcopalians here want to correct me, please do).

[Shaliyah]

Still, I wouldn't've minded if my parents told me I had a choice. >.>

Well, I know where you're coming from, but it's not like they told you you didn't is it? I know that's kind of a poor argument, but still.

It depends on the family I suppose. It's an argument but what if your parents force you to go to church for example? Force you to fast, to be present in specific rituals and so on. I'm not talking about you being grown up but you being a kid. I believe that many people become atheists cos of the traumatic experiences they had when they were kids. Personally I remember I was always scared of churches, needless to say about the orthodox priests (spooky appearance).

As it concerns now the OP, I will let them decide what is best of them. Brainwashing in such young ages can be proved very harmful later on. For those who asked what if the kid decides to follow a religion, I will just be fine with that since my kid consciously will make this decision.

[SeddyRocky]

I think I've seen this topic before by BP or someone...

Anyway, I think that parents should teach their kids what they themselves believe in, because kids do what their parents do anyway, so the parents should explain and educate.
Faith is however individual, and should be treated as such. Parents may want their child to grow up to be anything from agnostic to Sikh, but the faith should come from the child, not enforced by the parents (it would thusly only be "paperfaith" anyway).
And while I think that there should be discussions about spirituality, religion and atheism (and the many options within), I can understand why parents with firm beliefs would not want that. Simplified examples follow:

 If I'm Christian, I don't want my children to grow up atheist because I want to meet them in heaven some day/want the best spiritual life for them.
If I'm atheist, I don't want my children to grow up Christian because I think it is false/harmful to them.

If you don't want your children to share your beliefs, then maybe you feel that they are but one of many ways (pluralistic view) or that your way may not be right (agnostic view). Personally, I'd go with the approach that I won't teach my child anything, but when he/she asks, I'll be ready to discuss.
I grew up with a Christian mother and an atheist father, going to church and singing in the church choir until I was 13 and decided that I did not believe. Which obviously was a choice, not just from my parents but also from my friends and their families (Muslims, Jews and a bunch of "I-don't-care"-ists).

[maverixk]

I think I've seen this topic before by BP or someone...

Although old, I created a topic very close to this a while back. Just posting it for a reference so you can read other points people made. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8620.0.html

[mildlyfrightenedboy]

Ok, so something that I've heard from atheists to theists is that parents are flat-out wrong in teaching their kids that the religion they believe in is the correct way to live their life. Such as a Christian mom and dad take their son or daughter to church to teach them all that stuff. I've heard people say that because the parents are basically forcing the kids to, in my example, go to church then they are forcing their beliefs upon their children without regards for the child's personal belief. Any thoughts?

In some cases, too strong of a religious upbringing results in the child rejecting the religion.
For instance:
My grandfather on my mother's side and my father were/are (my grandfather is retired) deacons, and my mother and grandmother are Eucharistic Ministers.  I am now an adamant atheist.  I am not the only case that I have heard of.

[maverixk]

In some cases, too strong of a religious upbringing results in the child rejecting the religion.
For instance:
My grandfather on my mother's side and my father were/are (my grandfather is retired) deacons, and my mother and grandmother are Eucharistic Ministers.  I am now an adamant atheist.  I am not the only case that I have heard of.

Still, I'm quite sure that parents would also get criticized for not teaching their kids what is right. Wouldn't you agree that if a parent knew that their child would get hit by a car if they played in the street and made the choice not to tell their child to stay out of the street that the parent was not making the right decision for their child? It's the same way with religion, if the parent truly believes in their religion then why shouldn't they teach it to their kid(s)?

[Nepycros]

It's not about completely cutting them off from one branch. It's letting them climb the WHOLE tree.

[maverixk]

It's not about completely cutting them off from one branch. It's letting them climb the WHOLE tree.

But if the parent believes that one of the branches will break if the child climbs it, therefore injuring the child, shouldn't the parent tell the child not to climb that branch and/or tell them to climb a different one?