I still find it hard to believe the complexity of the universe to be mere chance

[killybob]

huh. im quite one for misunderstandings aren't I?

[Bloodshadow]

What do you mean it's meaningless to understand the outside of the universe just because we can not exist there?

It's meaningless just like how it's meaningless to try to calculate 0/0 directly. There is no "outside" of the universe, in our traditional sense of the word. You want to know what happens if you poke an arm through the border of the universe, but you can't do that since the border of the universe holds no meaning to a 3D creature.

also you seem to have made a stereotype of all religious people suggesting that they are inept in the field of science and reject it.

I never said that all religious people are inept at science. However, a significant portion of them attempt to invalidate science without knowing what they're up against. For example, many religious people refute the Big Bang theory by saying that there must be something before the Big Bang, i.e. God. But if they read a bit of quantum theory, they'll know that as we trace time back to the Big Bang, it begins to behave like a spatial dimension, and thus has no beginning point to speak of. Asking what is before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole.

[Mark_Tran]

What do you mean it's meaningless to understand the outside of the universe just because we can not exist there?

It's meaningless just like how it's meaningless to try to calculate 0/0 directly. There is no "outside" of the universe, in our traditional sense of the word. You want to know what happens if you poke an arm through the border of the universe, but you can't do that since the border of the universe holds no meaning to a 3D creature.

also you seem to have made a stereotype of all religious people suggesting that they are inept in the field of science and reject it.

I never said that all religious people are inept at science. However, a significant portion of them attempt to invalidate science without knowing what they're up against. For example, many religious people refute the Big Bang theory by saying that there must be something before the Big Bang, i.e. God. But if they read a bit of quantum theory, they'll know that as we trace time back to the Big Bang, it begins to behave like a spatial dimension, and thus has no beginning point to speak of. Asking what is before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole.

And now we've come full circle because my question was what is the universe expanding into?

[OldTrees]

What do you mean it's meaningless to understand the outside of the universe just because we can not exist there?

It's meaningless just like how it's meaningless to try to calculate 0/0 directly. There is no "outside" of the universe, in our traditional sense of the word. You want to know what happens if you poke an arm through the border of the universe, but you can't do that since the border of the universe holds no meaning to a 3D creature.

also you seem to have made a stereotype of all religious people suggesting that they are inept in the field of science and reject it.

I never said that all religious people are inept at science. However, a significant portion of them attempt to invalidate science without knowing what they're up against. For example, many religious people refute the Big Bang theory by saying that there must be something before the Big Bang, i.e. God. But if they read a bit of quantum theory, they'll know that as we trace time back to the Big Bang, it begins to behave like a spatial dimension, and thus has no beginning point to speak of. Asking what is before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole.

And now we've come full circle because my question was what is the universe expanding into?

The video posted earlier described it very well.

As I understood from the video:
The universe (or what we call the universe) is a expanding volume within a larger area of "nothing"
"nothing" is area where quantum particles temporarily come into being out of nothing.
These particles exist just long enough and occur frequently enough that "empty space" has an average positive mass.
This average mass exerts a gravitational pull on all longer lived particles (our universe)

To use a simplified metaphor:
Existence is a volume of unknown size and  shape filled with Air (the "nothing"). The leftovers from the big bang are like a ball of gas that is diffusing throughout the volume.

Of course this raises the question about "How big is this volume of 'nothing' and could it be infinite?"

[killybob]

haha cosmetology as you say it is actually the study of the application of beauty products 

[Daxx]

killybob, did you have an answer to my question?

[Bloodshadow]

And now we've come full circle because my question was what is the universe expanding into?

The way I see it, the universe isn't expanding into anything. All the spatial and temporal dimensions wrap around themselves and form closed loops, and when the universe expands the loops get bigger. I suppose "expand" isn't quite the right word; "warp" is more like it, since the dimensions warp in such a way that they can contain more matter at a fixed density.

Sigh... I'm bad at explaining this. Let me use another analogy. Imagine that you are an AI inside a computer program, a simulated world of sorts. What lies outside of the computer? Since your existence is entirely defined by the computer program, the outside of the computer holds no meaning to you. For all intents and purposes, the universe doesn't have an outside.

And now you're going to say that science can't answer your question, but God can. Sure, God can ignore the rules and do anything, while science can't. There is no way we can win. In a way that makes sense, since science is limited by our perceptions; perhaps God is the truth or reality behind the facade of perception. I believe that Infinity is this truth, so I suppose that makes me a scientific theist of sorts; but I certainly do not believe in a single word of Christianity.

[Mark_Tran]

And now we've come full circle because my question was what is the universe expanding into?

The way I see it, the universe isn't expanding

into

anything. All the spatial and temporal dimensions wrap around themselves and form closed loops, and when the universe expands the loops get bigger. I suppose "expand" isn't quite the right word; "warp" is more like it, since the dimensions warp in such a way that they can contain more matter at a fixed density.

Sigh... I'm bad at explaining this. Let me use another analogy. Imagine that you are an AI inside a computer program, a simulated world of sorts. What lies outside of the computer? Since your existence is entirely defined by the computer program, the outside of the computer holds no meaning to you. For all intents and purposes, the universe doesn't have an outside.

And now you're going to say that science can't answer your question, but God can. Sure, God can ignore the rules and do anything, while science can't. There is no way we can win. In a way that makes sense, since science is limited by our perceptions; perhaps God is the truth or reality behind the facade of perception. I believe that Infinity is this truth, so I suppose that makes me a scientific theist of sorts; but I certainly do not believe in a single word of Christianity.

Who said anything about winning or losing?  I was merely posing a question lol.

[BluePriest]

The way I see it, the universe isn't expanding

into

anything. All the spatial and temporal dimensions wrap around themselves and form closed loops, and when the universe expands the loops get bigger. I suppose "expand" isn't quite the right word; "warp" is more like it, since the dimensions warp in such a way that they can contain more matter at a fixed density.

Sigh... I'm bad at explaining this. Let me use another analogy. Imagine that you are an AI inside a computer program, a simulated world of sorts. What lies outside of the computer? Since your existence is entirely defined by the computer program, the outside of the computer holds no meaning to you. For all intents and purposes, the universe doesn't have an outside.

Paragraph 1:Sounds sorta contradictory. The loop is getting bigger, so its expanding correct? So I mean, it may be expanding in a warped way, but if its getting bigger, it IS expanding. Of course, this may have just been how you explained it, if so, forgive me

Paragraph 2:I just had a matrix moment. however, in the matrix, they tried to get unplugged lol /offtopic

[Bloodshadow]

Paragraph 1:Sounds sorta contradictory. The loop is getting bigger, so its expanding correct? So I mean, it may be expanding in a warped way, but if its getting bigger, it IS expanding.

Think of it this way. You have a bag that's bigger on the inside than the outside. You can put a certain amount of stuff in it. Now you upgrade the bag, so that its outside size stays the same but the inside size gets bigger. Now imagine that there is no outside, only the inside.

Paragraph 2:I just had a matrix moment. however, in the matrix, they tried to get unplugged

At least in the Matrix they're real humans connected to a virtual world. What if you're an AI with no connections to the real world? Even if you take control of another computer in the real world, your existence is still tied to the virtual world made of computer programs. You cannot directly interact with the real world. This isn't a perfect analogy, but it's the best I could come up with. Of course, I'm only a high school student, not a quantum physicist (yet), so I may be wrong.

Who said anything about winning or losing?  I was merely posing a question lol.

Aren't you trying to prove that "God did all of this" instead of quantum probability?

[Mark_Tran]

Paragraph 1:Sounds sorta contradictory. The loop is getting bigger, so its expanding correct? So I mean, it may be expanding in a warped way, but if its getting bigger, it IS expanding.

Think of it this way. You have a bag that's bigger on the inside than the outside. You can put a certain amount of stuff in it. Now you upgrade the bag, so that its outside size stays the same but the inside size gets bigger. Now imagine that there is no outside, only the inside.

Paragraph 2:I just had a matrix moment. however, in the matrix, they tried to get unplugged

At least in the Matrix they're real humans connected to a virtual world. What if you're an AI with no connections to the real world? Even if you take control of another computer in the real world, your existence is still tied to the virtual world made of computer programs. You cannot directly interact with the real world. This isn't a perfect analogy, but it's the best I could come up with. Of course, I'm only a high school student, not a quantum physicist (yet), so I may be wrong.

Who said anything about winning or losing?  I was merely posing a question lol.

Aren't you trying to prove that "God did all of this" instead of quantum probability?

Bolded  makes no sense.

And no I'm not trying to prove anything.  Where did you get that idea from? 

[Bloodshadow]

Please, learn to quote only a part of my post instead of the entire post.

Bolded  makes no sense.

If you can't understand what I posted, then I can't help you.

And no I'm not trying to prove anything.  Where did you get that idea from?

Why did you make this thread then?