*Author

Offline JyiberTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jyiber hides under a Cloak.
  • a.k.a Jyi (Now w/o medication!!!)
Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075100#msg1075100
« on: May 28, 2013, 04:39:54 pm »
The short version:

Atheists are against religion and they tend to lead arguments against it. They could be described as Anti-religion.

Agnostics could not care less about religion, they just don't believe. They are not against it, but not for it either. The logic with Agnostics often tends to be: there's no proof of god, but there's no proof against one either.

EDIT: There are many different gray areas in-between and around these, and according to OldTrees, a whole other term for people directly opposed to religion. In my personal experience, this usually applies to people who put themselves under the label Atheist, but don't make presumptions.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 07:51:57 pm by Jyiber »
<^> Curiosity killed the cat. Now what if I told you Curiosity was the name of my dog?
<^> All things must come to an end. The things that you loved, and things you hate, but much more pressingly, the timer to the bomb that's in the room with us.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075109#msg1075109
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 05:01:58 pm »
Correction:

Atheist: Does not believe in gods
Agnostic: Does not believe you can know if gods exist or don't exist
Antitheist: Believes theism is dangerous/damaging

There are agnostic theists.
There are agnostic atheists. (Most atheists)
There are antitheist atheists. (Most "militant" atheists)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 05:05:50 pm by OldTrees »
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline russianspy1234

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Country: ru
  • Reputation Power: 26
  • russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Crucible Bombarder
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeArt Competition - Meta Master Card Design Competition: New Year's ResolutionsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elementshifted 3rd Birthday Cake -Fire-DIAC Ray of SunshineSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075111#msg1075111
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 05:02:47 pm »
False.
Atheists are of the belief that there is no God.  While many might have a negative view of religion, such a view is not implied by the belief of Atheism.  There are in fact religions such as Buddhism that do not believe in a God.

Agnostics do not know whether there is a God or not (though most I've met tend to lean towards not) but also often hold a negative view of religions that hold so firmly that there is one.
My Portfolio
Brawl 7 is occurring.  Come follow along.

Offline Marsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 18
  • Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Green.
  • Awards: Winner of Booster Draft #2 - PvP EventBattle League 2/2013 Third Place7th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2013 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075116#msg1075116
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 05:14:53 pm »
False.
Atheists [...] are in fact religions such as Buddhism that do not believe in a God.

What.

OldTrees version is the one most fitting so far, but it's still based on a religious world view.

Atheism is the natural form of humanity, just as the pure incarnation of a ressentiment free human being is defined by the lack of fascism, while a fascist person might want to divide the world into 'People that believe jews should be gassed', 'People that don't care wether jews are gassed or not' and 'People that oppose the gassing of jews'.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075117#msg1075117
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 05:20:35 pm »
False.
Atheists are of the belief that there is no God.  While many might have a negative view of religion, such a view is not implied by the belief of Atheism.  There are in fact religions such as Buddhism that do not believe in a God.

Agnostics do not know whether there is a God or not (though most I've met tend to lean towards not) but also often hold a negative view of religions that hold so firmly that there is one.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. You will be swiftly corrected if you erroneously claim atheism is a belief. Some Buddhists are atheist.

It is true that Agnostics tend to have a negative view of people that claim to know if god exists or not.

@Marsu
Yes Atheism is defined based on a religious world view since it was a word invented by the Greeks/Romans.
However it is true that Humans are born lacking a belief in gods. (Just like humans are born lacking belief in logic or bigfoot)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 05:24:29 pm by OldTrees »
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Zso_Zso

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1682
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • ghost of a past wizzard
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner 2019.10.26Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner - June 29Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeGold Donor7th Trials - Master of LightSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075125#msg1075125
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 05:29:24 pm »
Agnostics could care less about religion, they just don't believe.

Just a nitpick: Didn't you mean to write " could not care less" ?
English is not my native language, so I might be wrong, but that phrase bothers my sense of logic.
If you "could care less about" something, that means you definitely care about it and we do not have any real information how much. OTOH, if you say "could not care less about", that means you do not care at all (your care = 0 , so you could not have less care).

If I misinterpret this phrase, please explain it!

On-topic: my understanding of the definitions are the same as what OldTrees wrote.
Roses aren't red, Violets aren't blue.
They are just a simulation, and so are you!

Offline JyiberTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jyiber hides under a Cloak.
  • a.k.a Jyi (Now w/o medication!!!)
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075128#msg1075128
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 05:32:42 pm »
Correction:

Atheist: Does not believe in gods
Agnostic: Does not believe you can know if gods exist or don't exist

How is that different from what I said? I mean your full breakdown was certainly more specific, and probably better phrased, but still...
<^> Curiosity killed the cat. Now what if I told you Curiosity was the name of my dog?
<^> All things must come to an end. The things that you loved, and things you hate, but much more pressingly, the timer to the bomb that's in the room with us.

Offline Marsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 18
  • Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Green.
  • Awards: Winner of Booster Draft #2 - PvP EventBattle League 2/2013 Third Place7th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2013 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075130#msg1075130
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 05:34:52 pm »
@Zso: That's a common phenomenon. 'I could care less' is indeed often used in colloquial language, so it probably was not just a typo, but as you pointed out, it does not make sense, which is why I would refrain from using it.

/e: Sorry for OT.

Offline russianspy1234

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Country: ru
  • Reputation Power: 26
  • russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.russianspy1234 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Crucible Bombarder
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeArt Competition - Meta Master Card Design Competition: New Year's ResolutionsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elementshifted 3rd Birthday Cake -Fire-DIAC Ray of SunshineSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075131#msg1075131
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 05:37:37 pm »
False.
Atheists [...] are in fact religions such as Buddhism that do not believe in a God.

What.
what what? you cut out the middle part of what i said so of course the rest is undecypherable... im saying that atheism does not necessarily mean lack of religion.

False.
Atheists are of the belief that there is no God.  While many might have a negative view of religion, such a view is not implied by the belief of Atheism.  There are in fact religions such as Buddhism that do not believe in a God.

Agnostics do not know whether there is a God or not (though most I've met tend to lean towards not) but also often hold a negative view of religions that hold so firmly that there is one.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. You will be swiftly corrected if you erroneously claim atheism is a belief. Some Buddhists are atheist.

It is true that Agnostics tend to have a negative view of people that claim to know if god exists or not.

"belief" has some connotations, but what else do i call it? "conclusion?" isn't it most buddhists are atheists?

Agnostics could care less about religion, they just don't believe.

Just a nitpick: Didn't you mean to write " could not care less" ?
English is not my native language, so I might be wrong, but that phrase bothers my sense of logic.
If you "could care less about" something, that means you definitely care about it and we do not have any real information how much. OTOH, if you say "could not care less about", that means you do not care at all (your care = 0 , so you could not have less care).

If I misinterpret this phrase, please explain it!

On-topic: my understanding of the definitions are the same as what OldTrees wrote.

English is weird. there is indeed a phrase "i could care less" that means exactly the same thing as "i couldn't care less"
My Portfolio
Brawl 7 is occurring.  Come follow along.

Offline JyiberTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jyiber hides under a Cloak.
  • a.k.a Jyi (Now w/o medication!!!)
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075132#msg1075132
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2013, 05:38:44 pm »
There, fixed the "could not care less" thing. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense.

Strange that people usually get more picky about details in a post, than the actual topic of the post...
<^> Curiosity killed the cat. Now what if I told you Curiosity was the name of my dog?
<^> All things must come to an end. The things that you loved, and things you hate, but much more pressingly, the timer to the bomb that's in the room with us.

Offline Marsu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 18
  • Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Marsu is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Green.
  • Awards: Winner of Booster Draft #2 - PvP EventBattle League 2/2013 Third Place7th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2013 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075134#msg1075134
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 05:40:44 pm »
Noone has gotten picky, Zso just asked for the sense in it and russianspy and me tried to explain. :)

@russianspy:

Sorry, I misread something there. Read 'There' as 'They' for some reason, making it "Atheists are religions that don't believe in a god'.

Offline JyiberTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jyiber hides under a Cloak.
  • a.k.a Jyi (Now w/o medication!!!)
Re: Atheism vs Agnostic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49548.msg1075135#msg1075135
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 05:41:47 pm »
Oh I know, it's just funny.
<^> Curiosity killed the cat. Now what if I told you Curiosity was the name of my dog?
<^> All things must come to an end. The things that you loved, and things you hate, but much more pressingly, the timer to the bomb that's in the room with us.

 

blarg: