Elements PvP League - Suggestions and Feedback

[furballdn]

The most ppl here say Shards should be banned.
But like I read before, BL and CL are the only places where Shards are allowed in PvP.
If two particular shards are often used, why no counter decks then?
Maybe we can introduce two parts. The first half shards are allowed and the second half without shards.

Two parts sounds nice. How about you can only use shards after you have finished 30 games?

And how many people do that?

[Onizuka]

The problem with splitting a league into two parts is that we're left with probably many developments of not wanting to play in the half with shards.

If it goes first, we'll have people waiting till the second half to play. This is a negative to the people who join during the first, as less competition=bad.
If it goes second, then we'll probably see a mix of people who want to play in the shardless and shard metagames. This could create a '30 games and quit' mentality. I haven't seen anyone actually ever claiming a 'avoidance rule' win to my knowledge, and I doubt that will change. As I have no idea what system will be used next season, the varying effects of people sitting at 30 is different (Krach vs Elo, etc). So we want to discourage a possible 30 games mentality. So eliminating all the people who won't play in the shards metagame, now we have the development that people who wanted to play shardless are now playing where shards are allowed. What do the people that were in part 1 now do? They will probably do what CL did lateish into the season and create no shards/sofo/soi/sosac/etc games, which generally defeats the purpose of what is happening.

And its not like people really hate shards. They just hate a few of them and I see no real reason to have a uniform ban of shards when no one is truly complaining about the UU ones.

TL;DR: I don't think splitting the league in half will work out well/as well as the idea I pitched.

And allowing people to use shards after 30 games done is bad/harms the people who can't spam games early on. Possible 'don't play him, he has 30 games/near 30 games' mentality as well.

[RootRanger]

The most ppl here say Shards should be banned.
But like I read before, BL and CL are the only places where Shards are allowed in PvP.
If two particular shards are often used, why no counter decks then?
Maybe we can introduce two parts. The first half shards are allowed and the second half without shards.

Even better.

[plastiqe]

Lets talk about the pros playing in BL issue again.  In the State of the Forum thread a couple ideas were brought up to attract newbies to the forums, and getting demolished by veterans in the "Beginners" League won't endear us to anyone.  Either rename it so it's not misleading, or create a newbie friendly league.  I spend a bit of time in the Introduction section, and I'll have a hard time recommending a newb to go play in BL just so they can be farmed for wins by pros.

CL participation has been on steady decline, last session had only 19 players, just 10 of which completed the 30 games.  I have never liked pvp'ing upgraded (mostly because I don't grind for upgrades) but why aren't more players playing CL?  Maybe it's time to just have two unupped leagues, one for newbs and one for vets.

I dunno what the reward code situation is, but it would be nice if it was your first BL season and you finish 30 games you get an electrum reward.  Some incentive for the newbs that actually need the cash.  Take codes from CL if you have to.

[Calindu]

CL participation has been on steady decline, last session had only 19 players, just 10 of which completed the 30 games.  I have never liked pvp'ing upgraded (mostly because I don't grind for upgrades) but why aren't more players playing CL?  Maybe it's time to just have two unupped leagues, one for newbs and one for vets.
Can't agree with you here because you are biased, low number of people is indeed because the upgrades needed to be competitive, but having 2 unupped leagues is a bad idea.

I dunno what the reward code situation is, but it would be nice if it was your first BL season and you finish 30 games you get an electrum reward.  Some incentive for the newbs that actually need the cash.  Take codes from CL if you have to.
Electrum reward for finishing 30 games is nice, 3-5ks should be enough.
But why take codes away from CL? Why? The rewards were bigger for CL 2 leagues ago, now it's on par, which is probably how it should be, you said we have a low number of people in CL, taking codes away wouldn't throw them away from trying?

[Dragoon]

I don't know if this has been suggested before (and I really don't want to read through 30 pages of posts to check), but have you considered combining multiple scoring systems? People have mentioned that the different systems have weaknesses, but would using multiple scoring systems and then weighting them help?

For example, what if KRACH was worth 35%, ELO 35%, and win percentage or total wins 30% of a person's score? Would this help smooth out any loopholes and weaknesses inherent in a single system?

[Jenkar]

I don't know if this has been suggested before (and I really don't want to read through 30 pages of posts to check), but have you considered combining multiple scoring systems? People have mentioned that the different systems have weaknesses, but would using multiple scoring systems and then weighting them help?

For example, what if KRACH was worth 35%, ELO 35%, and win percentage or total wins 30% of a person's score? Would this help smooth out any loopholes and weaknesses inherent in a single system?

Didn't see this posted before.
My main first thought about this is that by doing a linear combination this way, you mix the weaknesses as well as the advantages. The problem is that the disadvantage of ELO is the advantage of KRACH, and vice versa. Hence, if we were to mix both at a 50/50 ratio, we would have about half the schedule problem and half the stagnation problem. (i intentionnaly ignored win % and total win, both because i absolutely dislike them )

[Vangelios]

I'm against the bans shards in BL and CL

Where can we play elements in its fullness? Only pvp1 and pvp2?
 Then we shall not be in this forum? Gentlemen this is unfair and ungrateful to creator of the game.
really there shards (only 2 in my opinion) that are above the equilibrium, if the creator does not want change we must respect.
 We have the option to nerf where we can suggest
a version more just, so who knows maybe be changed.
moreover we have many competitions with restrictions.

[Jenkar]

Note : the shard (or any card) bans are optionnal, and are not "superior" to the standard (no bans) ruleset that we had before. IE if you want to play without bans vs someone who wants to play with certain bans, there will be no bans in that match. Maybe that answers your worry?

[mrpaper]

This is the same post idea I've written in the forum situation thread...
is it even debatable to go back to total win to encourage life in forums and chat? Leagues we're much more popular back then because of that.
 I also proposed that we could go hybrid, with bonus points for each win added to an Elo score exemple you have an Elo of 1632 including 25 wins .. we give you 2 points per win, making you're score at 1682.. this way who you beat matters but playing a ton too... and this would help the problem of lack of gameplay.  I haven't made the count but there probably was 2-3 times more matches back then

[plastiqe]

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is just starting out.  You're up against players in BL with records like 103 - 26, 81 - 18, 61 - 6... who you have little to no chance against because they've got all the cards and the top secret perfected unupped decks.  How many of the players that go 3 - 15 and then get banned from the next league season stick around on the forums? 

But then again if we just keep running those players out of the forums they won't be around to post in League - Suggestions and Feedback to ask for a fairer system.  I think it's super important we make sure elite players are dividing up the rewards for themselves fairly.  [/sarcasm] 

League is the easiest way to introduce organized pvp cause all you really have to do is pop into chat.  I think there should be more beginner friendly rules in the beginners league.

[Jenkar]

Disclaimer : what is going to follow is my opinion as a player that played in leagues and as someone who follows them, not as a league organizer.
The begginer's league "problem" of not being for begginers only. Isn't (in my opinion) a problem. The reason is that organized pvp is tough. Getting a name is tough. Winning a tournament is tough, winning an event, or winning war, or winning trials, too. The main reason for this is that when you play organized pvp for the first time, you get to face people which have played the game for 1 or 2 years, which know a lot of techniques, a lot of deck types, who have a lot of mindreading capacity. They know how to test decks, what is going to work against what, what this ban for this tournament is going to change, how people'll react in general, and how to react to that. In short, they have experience.
Originally, though, these people were new to organised pvp. How did they get experience? By playing versus other people who have played the game for longer than they have, and who have the experience themselves.
When i started leagues, i was really a noob. If i recall correctly, i started BL in the last month of season 2/2011 (there was a special allowance on that season). I played versus people like TStar, whose level was way above me. And that wasn't frustating, because i learnt, and i had fun, and T had fun (search for the AI0 deck on the forums to see what i mean by fun). If i had to face some people on the same level as me, i feel i would have learnt way slower than i did. And hence been unable to have any effectivity in tournaments, trials, war, ect.

A bit of a fastforward. Season 1/2012. I've got a lot of experience in the two season before, and am quite happily sitting on the top of the rankings of BL. My feeling when i saw new people wasn't "Hurr durr yay points", but more "How can i teach them the basics?". And boy, there were results. For example, regen2k9 made the prototype of the monolight that eventually became incredibly strong in BL. Cheesy111 started in that season too, and both placed in the top 6 in both that league and the 2/2012 one.

The point i'm trying to make is that begginer's league toughens up recentlytookorganisedpvp people. Having a league only composed of them would make BL => Other pvp events become a very wide jump. And also cuts a road to get to know people, socialise with the community.