Elements PvP League - Suggestions and Feedback

[mrpaper]

Krach system is great but it ain't realistic to ask that much work from organizers so we can't use that option for now, until then we need to rehink things since it can be a few years.

[Jenkar]

Krach system is great but it ain't realistic to ask that much work from organizers so we can't use that option for now, until then we need to rehink things since it can be a few years.

I'm working on it. Maybe to no avail. There's a simple to design solution that'll be an organizer's nightmare, and i'm tryin' to simplifyit.

[TStar]

Krach system is great but it ain't realistic to ask that much work from organizers so we can't use that option for now, until then we need to rehink things since it can be a few years.

I'm working on it. Maybe to no avail. There's a simple to design solution that'll be an organizer's nightmare, and i'm tryin' to simplifyit.

Good luck.  If you know anyone who can get in touch with QuantumT see if they can contact him for you.  He spent a lot of time trying to get a KRACH system working for Leagues with no luck so he might have some insight into it for you.  RootRanger might still have some of the stuff they did if you ask him.

[RootRanger]

QT never sent anything to me. But I know exactly where to find him.

I also used to play on a small community that used KRACH ratings. I might be able to get help from the main admin that programmed the ratings.

Can we be sure that we, as a community, would rather use KRACH?

[TStar]

QT never sent anything to me. But I know exactly where to find him.

I also used to play on a small community that used KRACH ratings. I might be able to get help from the main admin that programmed the ratings.

Can we be sure that we, as a community, would rather use KRACH?

No, I can't promise you anything but if we get a working system that can be evaluated then at least it's an option.

[CCCombobreaker]

Bucky?  If you think it is all luck then you just want prizes handed out by games played.  But clearly it is not luck, and TStar is not the only good example.  The league clearly separates better players from worse ones (or ones that handicap themselves).  No random person has wandered into league and lucked their way into the top 6.  If it was all luck I would at least expect new players to often get 'lucky' and start out 5-0 or something like that, which also just doesn't happen.

Building (or finding) good decks, and choosing what deck to use is part of the skill.  And there is playskill in the game.  Just because a the sample you look at doesn't make lots of player errors doesn't mean player errors don't still decide matches.  It is not all luck.  There is skill on a number of levels, and they add up to a noticeable and differentiatable skill value that ELO can approximate.

[Xenocidius]

I'd like to offer my services in making a KRACH system. It would be much more optimal than Google Docs, and wouldn't be at all intensive on any database. Talk to me and we can arrange some sort of system.

[UTAlan]

I'd like to offer my services in making a KRACH system. It would be much more optimal than Google Docs, and wouldn't be at all intensive on any database. Talk to me and we can arrange some sort of system.

Let me know if you want some more help.

[bucky1andonly]

@CCCombobreaker

The game is more luck based than skill based.  Anyone that argues otherwise obviously doesn't know better.  I have tons of upgraded cards, I have used premade decks before but as a last resort, and I know the game inside and out.  But I lose a lot more than I win in pvp, and that is mainly because I get crappy draws a lot, and I mean a lot.  I can have the right amount of quanta production for a deck, or a deck that has been tested and proven to work, and I will get a bad hand I would say 7/10 times.  And because other people, the ones you think have skill and are pros, resort to all the same decks again and again in all events when they can possibly use them, does not make them what you think they are.  I can use the same decks as they use and lose more often than they do because I have bad luck.  I have bad luck in most games I play.

Example, in rpgs.  Some games you level up easily, so my goal is to not search every corner of the game and rush through.  But I always seem to take the wrong corners and end up searching the entire game unintentionally.  The exact opposite happens when I go to search, I end up finding exits or run into bosses before I am done searching.

In counter strike, I always seem to run into the biggest crowd of enemies.  Or if I am in the back of a group, I am the first to die for some reason.

It's all bad luck, and in a luck based game like this, I lose in pvp.  I even can go on losing streaks against the AI from time to time, but since they hold back cards they shouldn't or play cards on other cards they shouldn't they lose a lot.



And yes, someone willing to put in the effort to participate and play often should be rewarded over someone looking to take the easy route and play the minimal amount of games for a win.  A league is supposed to be about participation, and adding in penalties for not playing a certain amount per week is reasonable.  Even with a legitimate reason for not playing, there is no way to verify it though, you are still not playing which means other people cannot take points away from you.  And with league only running 3 months, if you miss a week, it is a big deal if you are on top. 

It is not enough for people to catch up, people have to be able to bring those on top down.  So a point system that gets people to play more often is what is needed, not something that makes it easier for people on top to stay on top.  But unfortunately, no one wants to do anything simple and resort to the most complicated formulas that do not apply to a game of luck.

[Jenkar]

I believe i've made a krach on a gdocs. It simply needs you to input data, rest is automated.
My main problem : scores need a reference point. We either need a personn who's score is fixed at 1 forever (bad solution) or a dummy against which everyone won once and lost once.
I prefer the dummy due to a very potent problem : if you win all your matches, you get infinite rating.

Scratch all this. I need one dumb function for it to work.

[TStar]

Except your "simple" method was tried for quite some time and found to be horrible and abandoned.  The fact that you cannot seem to acknowledge that your system was tried and rejected already really is counterproductive to trying to have a real conversation about improvements.

[TStar]

I believe i've made a krach on a gdocs. It simply needs you to input data, rest is automated.
My main problem : scores need a reference point. We either need a personn who's score is fixed at 1 forever (bad solution) or a dummy against which everyone won once and lost once.
I prefer the dummy due to a very potent problem : if you win all your matches, you get infinite rating.

Scratch all this. I need one dumb function for it to work.

Getting a system to work for a tiny sample size is fine, but will the gdocs be able to support 800+ matches worth of input and all the calculations required without taking an excessive amount of time per entry?  It does us no good if each entry takes 15 minutes for gdocs to process where in this season alone we've already had over 800 BL entries.