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Duo-Decks / Re: RoL / Hope (with new cards) (Duo)
« on: December 27, 2010, 01:13:19 pm »Quote
Upped fractal also only costs 9Only? It was 8 before. It's more expensive now.now.
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Patch Notes and Development News / Re: Elements 1.25
« on: October 23, 2010, 10:21:43 pm »They should go to separate stacks then. This makes quanta production way too uneven.The pendulums r cool, but if u put mor than 1 out at the same time they mach up. like if it's ab and a is first and u put another pendulum out when the first 1 is going to make b that turn, then the second pendulum makes b that turn instead of a. is that supposd 2 hapen? ???Yeah, all the pendulums go in the one stack and they produce whatever the stack is producing. It would be hard to tell what you were getting if some of them were going the opposite direction in the same stack.
I don't like pendulums all that much though for other reasons as well.
In case of mono, they do the same thing as towers.
In case of duo :
Let's assume you want a deck where you have a primary element which you need more, and a secondary one which you need less of. (Lava Destroyer decks are a great example for this, they need mostly Fire, and some Earth to function)
If you select the primary element as you mark, you are in trouble. Pendulums don't produce that element when played, and they don't produce it on their first turn either : You deck will be slowed down significantly....the card you normally play on turn 1 with towers will arrive into play on turn 3 instead...two whole additional turns is more than enough to make you lose in most damage race situations. (The remaining cards in your hand will be even further delayed...)
If you select your secondary element as the mark then...well, then you are better off with using towers because your mark will provide you with enough of the secondary element anyway.
In both cases, using pendulums wouldn't improve the deck performance, it would reduce it.
In case you need more than two elements, pendulums won't help. They are unable to produce more elements than a tower can : with the inclusion of a tower, you'll get access to the tower's element, while also having access to your mark element anyway, while with a pendulum you will get the pendulum element, and your mark element (which is NOT a new element...your mark already produces it), so in the end, it only changes the distribution, not the actual number of elements you can use.
In case of 5 or more elements, quantum tower is strictly superior to all other options, even though it's very slow and random for quanta production.
Pendulums would be much more useful if they produced quanta of your mark when played, and on their first turn as well, and their own element on the second turn only.
That way they could support decks where you need more of one element and less of another properly.
The best would be if you could select between the two behaviors, though, or a second set of pendulum cards for the second type of behavior.
In all cases though, they shouldn't stack with pendulums in the other phase of quanta production.
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Archived Decks / Re: The Lobotomizer Layout
« on: September 26, 2010, 03:47:23 pm »
Ok, time for nitpicking again.
= 0 
= 0 
= 0 
= 0 
= 0 
= 0 
= 0 anything.
It doesn't matter if you pay with 0 USD, 0 EUR, 0 GBP, or 0 apples, you still paid the same amount : nothing.
There is no difference between paying 0 Air or 0 Aether.
There is no difference between an empty bag that doesn't have any apples in it, and another empty bag that has no bananas in it.
Actually, paying zero of anything, and doing nothing are the same thing as well, but that's a different story.
If the cost determined the element of the card, then Anime Weapon wouldn't have one and would be an "other" card.
This isn't true because it is listed under Air in your deck editor screen, so we can conclude that in elements, the element of a card is not determined by the cost to play it, but instead by how the card frame looks like/ where the card appears in the bazaar.
More importantly, what matters is the definition of a Duo deck.
"A deck that contains cards of two elements" would make this a duo deck.
"A deck that needs two different elements to play cards" would make it a mono.
I think the second definition is better, but that's personal preference.
Quote
The cost of Flying Weapon is 0 Air quanta. This is a duo deck.0
= 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 = 0 anything.It doesn't matter if you pay with 0 USD, 0 EUR, 0 GBP, or 0 apples, you still paid the same amount : nothing.
There is no difference between paying 0 Air or 0 Aether.
There is no difference between an empty bag that doesn't have any apples in it, and another empty bag that has no bananas in it.
Actually, paying zero of anything, and doing nothing are the same thing as well, but that's a different story.
If the cost determined the element of the card, then Anime Weapon wouldn't have one and would be an "other" card.
This isn't true because it is listed under Air in your deck editor screen, so we can conclude that in elements, the element of a card is not determined by the cost to play it, but instead by how the card frame looks like/ where the card appears in the bazaar.
More importantly, what matters is the definition of a Duo deck.
"A deck that contains cards of two elements" would make this a duo deck.
"A deck that needs two different elements to play cards" would make it a mono.
I think the second definition is better, but that's personal preference.
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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)
« on: September 22, 2010, 04:02:21 pm »Quote
Back in the 1.24's I played total of 400 games with Hope-RoL getting ~50% wins.Now repeat those 400 games with my version and say it again. You probably didn't notice but this version has NO SoG in the deck, so the chance to win against Morte, scorpio, and many others is significantly lower. This version probably gets around 40% at most if you play every god including the ones that should be skipped.
I know that Rol/Hope can beat every god except octane with a different deck build, but that's not the point of farming false gods. If you want the best possible electrum/hour, you MUST skip the gods listed. There is no reason to play against gods that give you a less than 50% win rate if you are going for the electrum, and this is especially true if that'd mean adding more cards to the deck that further slows it down (Shard of Gratitude) to actually get that near 50% win rate.
Yes, Rainbow decks get a much higher win rate, and a much lower electrum/hour because
-They are slower. Much slower. Especially time rainbows that have the best win rates. The time it takes to finish a game using those decks is twice (30-40 card speed rainbows) to four-six times (40-60 card time rainbows).
-Unlike Rol/Hope where a low amount of strategy is needed, with those decks, you need to pay much more attention, which results in slower play, and getting tired faster. It also increases the chance of making mistakes.
-When playing a rainbow deck, you don't know in advance which games you'll win or lose. You have to play all games (except the ones against divine glory and dark matter, those are usually impossible with a rainbow deck, not counting extreme luck, like the god not drawing towers for 15 straight turns). In case of this deck, you can give up/skip most of the losing games before playing them (or at worst case, on turn 2-3).
While playing with a rainbow deck, you spend about 40% of your time playing games you end up losing. When playing Rol/Hope, you spend about 10% on such games, and another 5-10% on skipping on the first 1-3 turns, so less time is lost. If you add this together with the deck speed difference, the end result is winning about 3 times as many games during the same amount of time as when playing a rainbow.
What I wanted to say originally : Replacing half of the towers with pendulums (which was also mentioned by someone above), is recommended. It makes Seism much easier, and it also helps against Dream Catcher, which is already 2 out of the 12 gods you can play.
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Half Bloods / Re: (un)official contest: Design an AI5!
« on: September 21, 2010, 07:48:48 pm »
2x Mark. 100 Life. 1x draw.
Rewards as it is now (3 spins).
ALL upgraded cards. (main source of reward)
Optimized, strong decks. (Unlike FG decks which are pretty unoptimized)
(No, I won't post decklists. There is no point. We'd need at least 20-30 of them anyway, and it's better to start making them AFTER it has been decided how many draws/marks etc, not before. Draws and Marks are a primary factor in designing the decks, and I assume all HB will have the same amount after they get changed...if they'll get changed at all.)
In short, no advantage for HB except +1 mark, but stronger decks than what an average FG has.
Yes, that'd make the AI 5 both easier and more rewarding than it is now. Which is a good thing. It'd make HB the main source of farming (which they should be, being the highest AI level intended for farming) to replace false gods (which are intended to be a challenge and not a farming target, but they are because everything else gives too low rewards)
False god rewards should be somehow increased, or at least changed. HB should be the main source of electum/upgraded cards in the game, and FG should be reserved as a challenge.
Rewards as it is now (3 spins).
ALL upgraded cards. (main source of reward)
Optimized, strong decks. (Unlike FG decks which are pretty unoptimized)
(No, I won't post decklists. There is no point. We'd need at least 20-30 of them anyway, and it's better to start making them AFTER it has been decided how many draws/marks etc, not before. Draws and Marks are a primary factor in designing the decks, and I assume all HB will have the same amount after they get changed...if they'll get changed at all.)
In short, no advantage for HB except +1 mark, but stronger decks than what an average FG has.
Yes, that'd make the AI 5 both easier and more rewarding than it is now. Which is a good thing. It'd make HB the main source of farming (which they should be, being the highest AI level intended for farming) to replace false gods (which are intended to be a challenge and not a farming target, but they are because everything else gives too low rewards)
False god rewards should be somehow increased, or at least changed. HB should be the main source of electum/upgraded cards in the game, and FG should be reserved as a challenge.
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Issue Archive / Re: Bone Wall....confusion.
« on: September 18, 2010, 09:56:26 am »Quote
Bone wall is not a stackable card or else you would play multiple bone walls at onceSure, but that wouldn't make the card much stronger anyway. So I see no reason why it shouldn't be a stackable card if it otherwise works as one.
Besides, if it's counters, the the card should get destroyed by deflags.
Current version works according to this text (yes, the text is not on the card, you have to guess for it like usual, but anyway...), which is extremely complicated for something not even written on the card, but matches the "counters" version :
"
Shield.
Whenever Bone Wall comes into play, if you played it from your hand, put 7 bone counters on it.
Whenever Bone Wall would be destroyed, instead, remove a bone counter from it.
Whenever Bone Wall would be stolen, create a copy of Bone Wall under the control of the opponent with one bone counter on it, and remove a bone counter from Bone Wall.
Whenever there are no counters on Bone Wall, it is destroyed.
Whenever a creature is killed, put two bone counters on Bone Wall.
Whenever you'd take damage from an attacking creature, remove a bone counter from Bone Wall and prevent that damage.
"
(Yes, that's SIX different triggered and/or replacement abilities, if I were to speak in MTG terms.)
If it would stack, it would be that much simpler :
"
Shield.Stacking.
When you play Bone Wall, put 6 additional copies of it into play.
Whenever a creature is killed, put two additional copies of Bone Wall into play, and this ability cannot activate more than once per creature killed.
Whenever you'd take damage from an attacking creature, sacrifice a Bone Wall and prevent that damage.
"
THREE abilities fewer!
With the only actual difference of being able to play two in a row and...why is that bad? I can play it next turn after the previous one is destroyed anyway. Only time it matters if I'm that low on life to be unable to survive a turn without two of these but in those situations, it is rarely much of a help anyway...still gonna lose a turn later.
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Game Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Update to false gods to make them fair!
« on: September 18, 2010, 08:08:39 am »
70% or 90%, I don't care as long as most good deck concepts fitting for that group can get that high. The point is to have much more decks that can get a good win rate because the current situation, rainbow has 60%+ everything else 30-50 or even less, is bad.
And yes, "most challenging opponent = best farming source" is also bad. Those two should be separated. Making Half Bloods play with 100 life and all upgraded cards would solve that problem. False Gods should instead give other rewards that make them worth playing, like a free nymph or other rare for every time you defeated all 24, but they shouldn't be the main source for normal upgraded cards.
And yes, "most challenging opponent = best farming source" is also bad. Those two should be separated. Making Half Bloods play with 100 life and all upgraded cards would solve that problem. False Gods should instead give other rewards that make them worth playing, like a free nymph or other rare for every time you defeated all 24, but they shouldn't be the main source for normal upgraded cards.
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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)
« on: September 18, 2010, 08:02:17 am »Quote
But the serious problem is having to skip tons of false gods.I agree to that. I started playing a Rainbow deck again due to that...but Rainbow decks are much slower than this, so they are worse for electrum..although better for score and win %.
The only problems with Rol is skipping that many games is annoying, and the deck gets very very boring after a few hundred games. Unfortunately, nothing else can get electrum at this speed, rainbows are much slower.
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Rainbow Decks / Re: Voodoo Panic (Anti False-God Voodoo) (Video added)
« on: September 18, 2010, 07:53:11 am »Quote
That's because Gravity Pull can only be inflicted on one creature per side at a time.Is that a game rule? Since when? Why? Whatever.
This makes Gravity Pull waaaaay less useful as a way to protect yourself, then.
Imagine having 2x Armagios, and an opponent with 50 total damage from creatures, and you having 15 life... Thanks to this stupid rule, you'll die even if you could otherwise handle the damage for a turn which might be enough to win.
Yes, it's easier to code this than a way to distribute damage amongst multiple creatures with gravity pull properly, but come on! Game rules shouldn't be decided based on what is easier or harder to code, it should be decided based on how it plays better and how it is easier to understand and more logical.
Besides, with this kind of behavior, if my opponent plays a Gravity pull of his own on one of my small creatures, he can bypass my armagio/doll whatever I want to take the damage, and kill me. (Not with this deck, but in one that has other creatures he could)
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Issue Archive / Bone Wall....confusion.
« on: September 18, 2010, 07:38:23 am »
Okay...I've played Bone Wall many times and I think the behavior is contradicting itself.
When you play a Bone Wall, it has a 7 written on it.
At first I though that means 7 "wall counters", on a single card, so destroying the card would remove the shield altogether.
This isn't the case, it acts as 7 copies of the Bone Wall card. Destroying it reduces the counter by one, and stealing it also reduces the counter by one...and the stolen Bone Wall will be able to gain additional copies for you as well.
So..I though I finally understand how Bone Wall works : when you play it, it comes into play as seven copies of the card all stacked into your shield slot (like pillar clusters), and all copies have the ability of creating more copies when a creature dies, so even a stolen copy can. So I though Bone Walls are all each their own card, but stack together, like pillars.
Today, I got a mutant with steal. I had 47 Bone Walls in play and the opponent got 7 (he just played the card). When I used Steal to reduce his walls by one, instead of my newly gained Bone Wall stacking with the existing ones, and I ending up with 48 and the opponent 6, ALL 47 of my Bone Walls were destroyed and replaced by the single copy.
So...
Bone walls are separate cards that stack together to stay in the same slot (normal behavior) <-> Bone Walls don't stack together but replace each other (steal behavior)
They either stack or don't stack but they shouldn't do both at the same time. Fix please.
When you play a Bone Wall, it has a 7 written on it.
At first I though that means 7 "wall counters", on a single card, so destroying the card would remove the shield altogether.
This isn't the case, it acts as 7 copies of the Bone Wall card. Destroying it reduces the counter by one, and stealing it also reduces the counter by one...and the stolen Bone Wall will be able to gain additional copies for you as well.
So..I though I finally understand how Bone Wall works : when you play it, it comes into play as seven copies of the card all stacked into your shield slot (like pillar clusters), and all copies have the ability of creating more copies when a creature dies, so even a stolen copy can. So I though Bone Walls are all each their own card, but stack together, like pillars.
Today, I got a mutant with steal. I had 47 Bone Walls in play and the opponent got 7 (he just played the card). When I used Steal to reduce his walls by one, instead of my newly gained Bone Wall stacking with the existing ones, and I ending up with 48 and the opponent 6, ALL 47 of my Bone Walls were destroyed and replaced by the single copy.
So...
Bone walls are separate cards that stack together to stay in the same slot (normal behavior) <-> Bone Walls don't stack together but replace each other (steal behavior)
They either stack or don't stack but they shouldn't do both at the same time. Fix please.
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Rainbow Decks / Re: Voodoo Panic (Anti False-God Voodoo) (Video added)
« on: September 16, 2010, 12:44:32 pm »
Tried this in the trainer and noticed how playing a twin universe on a doll fails to copy the Gravity Pull status on it, making the copy useless. Even when I play an additional Gravity Force on it, by some miraculous bug, the gravity force from the other doll instantly disappears.
Yay for cards doing random unexpected stuff AGAIN.
And yes, I know that the opponent will take damage if you copy a doll with less than full health, which I also found strange and unreasonable.
More importantly...how am I supposed to kill a god with this if they heal back the same as the damage they do by having more feral bonds than the creatures they play have attack... same question for gods using Miracle...or am I supposed to win by making 3-4 copies of a damaged doll and abuse that bug?
Oh well, I think this deck is not meant for me.
Yay for cards doing random unexpected stuff AGAIN.
And yes, I know that the opponent will take damage if you copy a doll with less than full health, which I also found strange and unreasonable.
More importantly...how am I supposed to kill a god with this if they heal back the same as the damage they do by having more feral bonds than the creatures they play have attack... same question for gods using Miracle...or am I supposed to win by making 3-4 copies of a damaged doll and abuse that bug?
Oh well, I think this deck is not meant for me.
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Game Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Update to false gods to make them fair!
« on: September 15, 2010, 04:44:28 pm »Quote
I don't understand why you think that building a deck that wins at least 90% across the board is balanced.Because
-I'm playing against an AI. Something that doesn't think and throws cards at the table randomly.
-I'm playing against on opponent whose deck I know in advance. You know, if you already know your opponent will go by "Rock", usually, you win 100% of the time, unless the opponent is cheating...yes the gods are cheating that's why I said 90, not 100.
A deck that wins 90% across the board is not balanced. However, AI farming is NOT about across the board, it's about providing a reasonable speed for getting cards to the players, and more importantly having fun by testing your skills against a difficult challenge. It might be different for each person, but for me, playing a deck that has a lower than 75% win ratio versus previously known, AI opponents, is not fun.
The whole point would be being able to take advantage of knowing their decks in advance, and if they are so different, that is completely lost, making it no different from playing a random opponent in PVP that has a powerful deck and also happens to be able to cheat, but is obviously stupid to play because he prefers to cheat instead of learning to play.
Do you like playing against random cheaters? I don't.
If I know their decks in advance and can beat them with that information despite their cheating, now that is fun, and challenging. What we have now is not a challenge, but a source for frustration, because with that many different gods, it's basically a random opponent and you have no information you can use for deckbuilding.
Quote
The real question in my opinion is: "How difficult do we want False Gods to be?"There are two real questions :
1.How difficult we want false gods to be?
My answer to that : Possible to defeat at a high (90%) win rate if you are a very good player and have all the cards and experience necessary.
It might be subjective, but I consider a challenge beaten if I can consistently beat it, not if I can beat it when I'm lucky.
2.How difficult we want it to be to earn upgraded cards?
My answer : In the endgame, it should be much easier than now. Something like a 30-45 card deck should be possible to make with at most a day of playing (8 hours), without having to skip games and resorting to the fastest and most boring FG decks. So 5-6 upgraded cards should be the average amount won by first, and second tier decks, not something you can ONLY achieve with a single deck, and skipping half the games.
Of course, a major Half Blood reward buff+difficulty nerf could achieve that, so the 1. is the more important question, indeed. (The ability to win upped cards in PVP could also help.)