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Offline Drake_XIV

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492368#msg492368
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 11:08:05 pm »
Why would it need to?  The idea is to emulate pendulums, right?  And the Entropy Pendulum doesn't have a chance to morph to another element.

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492370#msg492370
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 11:10:56 pm »
Why would it need to?  The idea is to emulate pendulums, right?  And the Entropy Pendulum doesn't have a chance to morph to another element.
Why should it not? I did say for a twist. Also, if Entropy Pendulum had that ability it would off-balance the whole series - pendulums are meant to be equal like pillars - the same for each element. These are pendulum style. The switching is the only necessary similarity
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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492383#msg492383
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 11:31:31 pm »
Personally, I believe that we should follow one of the following builds:

* 1st build) Same statistics, same effects, different activated abilities, different passive abilities:

In this build, we are going to have all the versions of the creature with same atk & hp, but with different activated abilities. Buffs, damage taken, conditions and counters are all transferred between the versions. They are going to have different abilities and more likely suited with their element, which are not going to transfer between their morphs. For example, the  :air version of the creature can be airborne and has Dive as an activated ability, while the  :earth version will have Burrow.
 Example:  :earth version of the creature is 3|5 with a  :earth:Burrow activated ability and poisoned. It uses its burrow activated ability and it is now burrowed. In next turn, it becomes the  :aether version of the creature, it is now a 3|5 creature with a passive immortal ability but not burrowed anymore, however it is still poisoned and it takes 1 poison damage and it goes to 4 hp. In next turn, it turns to  :earth creature and it is already burrowed (it doesn't need to activate burrow ability again, but it can deactivate it) but not immortal anymore, and it takes another 1 point of damage from poison, going to 3 hp. etc. If the creature dies in one version, it dies into the other one too.

*2nd build) Different statistics, different effects, different activated abilities, different passive abilities:

In this build, we can have different statistics and the buffs, conditions, counters and damage are NOT transferred between the different versions of the creature. However, the various effects upon a creature's certain form will remain there and they will keep effecting it when the creature changes back.
 Example: The  :earth version of the creature is a 4|4 creature with  :earth:Burrow activated ability, it is poisoned and it activates the Burrow ability. Next turn it becomes the  :aether version and it is a 2|5 creature with Immortal passive ability, but it is not poisoned anymore. However, when it turns back to  :earth on the following turn, it is again a 4|4 burrowed poisoned creature and it takes 1 poison damage. Despite the fact these versions have different hp, if the creature dies in one version, it also dies in the other one.
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Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492389#msg492389
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 11:47:50 pm »
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Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492669#msg492669
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 12:05:01 pm »
Here is what we have so far. there were several contributors. we are still somewhat away from a final product.

Spoiler for Hidden:
A series of 12 creatures, 1 for each element. When played, they alternate between their normal form and the respective form of your mark's element.
[Will they all have different names, or will they all be inherently similar ( Red Archmage and Blue Archmage)? I'd prefer they be inherently different. Copypasting a theme for a shapeshifter seems bland and out of character. Agreed [Maybe start brainstorming names now?]Themes then names I think would be a bit smoother

[To avoid clogging up chat, how is this exactly going to work?  When it changes elements, will its ability change as well?   Or only any element dependant factors of it? Ability and element change.  So if it's Zealot on a... Air Mark, would it gain Garuda's ability? Zealot becomes Gardua 1 turn and switches back to Zealot the next.  Oh, so the entire card changes?  I wsa under the assumption it'd keep the same name. these are all the same entity found in different forms (this is the key theme)
Ideally, the card has another passive that notes the shapeshifter's original identity, which allows ito shift back and forth.
That may require testing  Ah.  But for now, how is creation being approached?  Most of these seem viable as cards on their own. Unsure on how to force a reliable link between them. I would ask Oldtrees for advice but be prepared for a very strong argument against this concept with "viable as cards on their own." being the core reason why it wouldn't be good. (This in turn would be countered by 'linking' the cards together, but there's a point where the card needs to work by itself.) No offense to you OT, just trying to think outside of a creator's position. These are 12 half cards. Full cards need to stand on their own. 2 half cards = 1 full card. The link is appropriate.

OldTrees: A fraction of the abilities should be utility skills. Some should be combat skills
OldTrees: The utility and combat skills should mesh.
List 2.0 - Final Abilities should be put here.

Air (Z) [Anti CC/Resilience]
    Hawkling | Garuda - Has a 50% chance to dodge attacks.
Entropy (Drake)  [Select version]
    Shapeshifter | Shapeshifter - Transform - Change to the target card's element.
Life (Drake) [Generator]
     Mitosis
Fire (Z) [Efficient creature]
     Temporary Stat buff
     Gain +3 | +0 for 1 turn.
     Perhaps change to a growth or poison (death) mechanic.
     [Inevitable victory/Accumulation (stat raising abilities + poison + hp reduction)]
+[Soft PC?]
Perhaps Water has a soft lobo for Perms or similar PC? freeze perms? Perhaps, but let's give soft PC to an element without PC. To be fair Water's current PC is somewhat situaional and luck-based. Noted. It is not worth excluding water but is worth considering others.
+[CC?]
+[Protect target] (both creature and permanent) Protection can also extend to a player's hand or quanta pool
+[Healing]
[Card advantage (copy cards Ae, draw cards T)]
[Evasion/Bypass] (momentum, catapult, psion etc.)
[Temporary Augment?] (Wyrm, Pegasus, Sky Blitz, Shard of Freedom)
[Resilience part 2?]
These 12 might be a good set.

Alternative Categories:
[Quanta generation]
[Combination](Chimera, SoI)
Minor Reaper | Reaper - Miasma - Enemy creatures gain -1 | -0 while this card is in play.
[Elemental Hate/Favoring?] (Holy Light, Nightfall, Flooding, Hope?) Why? Elemental changelings probably should not have such effectsagree
[Transferring? (Like Reverse Time, Mindgate, crusader, etc.)] overdone
[Imitation? (Crusader, Mingate, PU, Mitosis, etc...)] overdone
List 1.0 - All suggestions go here.

Earth
    *Guardian - All creatures take 1 less damage.
    °Ocasta - Steeled - Comes into play with 5 counters. When hit by a damaging spell, removes all status effects and lose a counter. Dies if there are no more counters. 5 per turn is a lot for mono version. Dodge is similar for lower numbers of counters
    Clay Soldier | Terracotta Soldier - Mold - Target creature gains the same status effect as this creature.  [Poison seems to be the only thing so far...  Maybe stat changes too... Sounds possible  Oh, and Adrenaline...]
Air
    °Hawkling | Garuda - Has a 50% chance to dodge attacks. Grants Momentum to a random creature when it dodges.
    Hawkling | Garuda - Has a 50% chance to dodge attacks. Generates 2 quantum of your mark when it dodges.
I don't think ^ or V would fit - they don't promote a strategy - or will it gain an active as well? Nor do they promote changing elements... Altered abilities of 1 version and put a a second version up.  On a side note, I think the jump from a Hawkling to the Garuda is quite large.
    Mirage | Mirage -
Fire
    °Zealot | Fervent - Deals 3 extra damage this turn.
   °Zealot | Fervent - Target creature attacks twice. Delay Zealot for 2 turns.
   
Water
    °Aquatic | Fludity -  Cryofuge - Target creature is frozen for 3 turns and gains Immaterial | Immaterial and Wisdom. (May be too close to squid, will try to think of something else.)
    Aquoid | Aquoid - Splash - Distribute X quanta in the target quanta pool.  X is the attack of Aquoid. Clever.

Light
    °Refractor | Refractor - Target creature/pendulum shifts forms and generates 1 :quantum of its current state.
    °Prisma | Prisma - All colored - Target creature's ability quanta cost turns into quanta of your mark.
    °Cherubim | Cherubim -
Life
    °Vitalia | Vitalia - Germination - Create a copy of this creature. The copy has 0 | 1 and gains +1 | +1 each turn until it's HP and ATK are full.
    °Vitalia | Vitalia - Blossom - Generate one delayed Vitalia.
    °Overgrowth - Attaches to a random enemy card when played. Cannot be destroyed unless the attached card is destroyed first.
Darkness
     °Slenderman | Slenderman - Unseen: Slenderman is invisible. Invisibility cannot be removed.
     °Shadeshifter | Shadeshifter -  Stalk - Shadeshifter attacks target creature and becomes invisible for one turn. Does not work if invisible. What do you mean? Well, I feel like being able to spam this thing attacking could be a bit imbalanced, so it should have somethin to limit it.What about mine? Well, how about 0 ATT? The only issue with that is forced buffs, but I don't see why not given the Scorpions.
Death
    °Minor Reaper | Reaper - Miasma - Enemy creatures gain -1 | -0 while this card is in play.
    °Ankou | Ankou - Soul Collecter - Ankou gains 1/2 the ATK and HP of a creature when it dies.
    Spirit | Spectre - Reincarnation - When Spirit | Spectre dies, spawn a random creature with [Shapeshift].

Entropy
    Shapeshifter | Shapeshifter - Transform - Change to the target card's element.
Aether
    °Thought Reader- Gain copy of a card in opponent's hand.
    Myrmidon | Swordsmaster - When this card succesfully damages the opponent, copy shield and weapon abilities. (Hmm. This seems better as a standalone.) [I can't help but feel a Myrmidon has been submitted before] That was by me. :P http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20003.0 Ah. But anyways, I think this would be pretty unreliable if it shifted and lost abilties each turn, but at the same time you could refresh abilities each time a switch occurs.
    °Ascetic - When this card misses, generate a Lightning in your hand.
    °Multidimensional Mage | Multidimensional Wizard - Generate a Spark in your hand if a creature misses, and generate a Ligtning in your hand if a spell misses. (Totally not based off my idea. XP)It is sort of based, from what it appears like. In reality, I didn't notice you had that. Sorry. Np
    °Planeshifter | Planeshifter - Warp - Target card is moved to a random spot [Slots encompass the entire field.  Weapons and Shields have 50% chance to be moved to either slot]
Gravity
   
Time
    °Anachronism  | Anachronism - When this card would be affected by another effect, generates 3 :time and loses 1 HP instead.
    °Time Misfit | Time Misfit - Analamic - After this card is played, it will enter the game at a random time during the next two turns for you or your opponent.Enters the game on your field.
    °Pendulaic Clockwork | Pendulaic Clockwork - Tick [No relation to the card in the Armory] - Activate all passive abilities [Undead, Mummy, Mutation, [Shapeshift].  Pretty sure I missed something...]
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Offline Captain Scibra

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492682#msg492682
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 01:04:18 pm »
Seems simple enough.  Some versions may need a relative nerf, such as Light due to Hope, which is seen in photon/RoL compared to the other creature pillars.

Perhaps we should also try to tack on a relieve mechanic to the creature that closely relates to how they are capable of the pendulum effect, so that they are more than simply pendulum creatures.  Pendulum effect would be passive, and I don't feel that is too strong.

For some ideas:
Light:  Mirror Knight comes to mind, and perhaps it has a reflectivity tacked on.  Thematically seems like the mirror can duplicate the effects of the Mark, or perhaps catch leaked amounts.

Fire: This one is tough, and may be tough to compete with say Immolation.  Large amounts of heat are capable of changing the atomic stucture, as seen within stars.  Nuclear Fusionist comes to mind, and an ability to change a few quantums to the currently produced type.  Possibly use cost is 1 :fire while it can change up to 3 quanta.

Gravity: This one is all about articial, or bending the laws.  Quantum Engineer comes to mind for a name.  Not sure what ability to tack on here.

Life:  Perhaps we can remake the Flowering Ent into this.  A natural Mitosis-like ability sounds good here.

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Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg492686#msg492686
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 01:41:58 pm »
This only like a Pendulum in the switching mechanic.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Pendulum Style Creature(s) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39619.msg494158#msg494158
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 06:44:04 am »
Consider:
  • :entropy Change the base form to that of target element.
  • :life Mitosis: Generate a daughter of the base form.
  • :darkness X% chance to ignore attacks/effects.
  • :gravity Shell: Ignore the first targeted effect/attack each turn.
  • :air Dive
  • Attack growth
  • Soft Permanent Control
  • Creature Control
  • Protect target.
  • :light Heal controller X.

Examples:
Dive + Attack Growth (would require stats to be conserved when shifting.)
Miss chance + Shell
Miss chance / Shell + Protect Target
Change form as base ability -> Rainbow of shapeshifters
Change form as mark ability -> Frequently shifting shapeshifter
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 06:46:03 am by OldTrees »
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