[Official] Dune Scorpion | Dune Scorpion

[ddevans96]

Pretty much exactly why I love Dune Scorpion's thematics so much :3

[Plastica]

Neurotoxins absolutely do not function or worsen based on how much you move/squirm/(play cards). In reality, neurotoxins prohibit movement and their effects worsen with time. Dune Scorpion's thematics would honestly be much better if it increased automatically by 1 (or 2) poison damage every turn. (While obviously ignoring complete paralysis [or inability to play cards])

For most decks, neurotoxin early-on is a death sentence, and the reasoning behind it doesn't even make complete sense.

[BeefSupreme]

Neurotoxins absolutely do not function or worsen based on how much you move/squirm/(play cards). In reality, neurotoxins prohibit movement and their effects worsen with time. Dune Scorpion's thematics would honestly be much better if it increased automatically by 1 (or 2) poison damage every turn. (While obviously ignoring complete paralysis [or inability to play cards])

For most decks, neurotoxin early-on is a death sentence, and the reasoning behind it doesn't even make complete sense.

THANK you! I'd say this is one of my least favorite cards as far as theme goes. I would agree more with Plastica's interpretation of this more than any other.
Dm and Marsu, you can't just say that this card makes sense because this is a fantasy game..

[Plastica]

Another way to implement time into the equation is to increase the poison damage by 1 for every draw by either player. This would create synergy between Dune Scorpion and Hourglasses, while also keeping thematics intact. (And not simply using the word neurotoxin regardless of it's definition.) I believe the "fantasy-game-write-off" just isn't viable when you're discussing something as specific as neurotoxin that really does exist in the waking world.

[serprex]

When a player is inflicted with neurotoxin, they play less cards. It's as if the neurotoxin has almost "paralyzed" their hand
You can choose to ignore the thematic paralysis, but you'll be punished
Dune Scorpion is weaker than Deathstalker if you don't play cards. This not even taking into account Nightfall

[CuCN]

I believe the "fantasy-game-write-off" just isn't viable when you're discussing something as specific as neurotoxin that really does exist in the waking world.

Antimatter certainly doesn't do anything in the real world like what it does in the game.

[Plastica]

When a player is inflicted with neurotoxin, they play less cards. It's as if the neurotoxin has almost "paralyzed" their hand
You can choose to ignore the thematic paralysis, but you'll be punished
Dune Scorpion is weaker than Deathstalker if you don't play cards. This not even taking into account Nightfall

Well, if you're going to assume that an elemental being needs to move in order to play a card, would they not move when drawing a card as well?

Antimatter certainly doesn't do anything in the real world like what it does in the game.

"In particle physics, antimatter is material composed of antiparticles, which have the same mass as particles of ordinary matter but have opposite charge..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

So Antimatter, as a spell, which is a supernatural device that is prone to symbolism, gives the creature an equal but opposite "charge" (power) but leaves the creature's "mass" (HP) as it is. This makes much more sense than a paralyzing toxin (which is not in the realms of the supernatural at all) that hurts you, yet still allows for movement. In life, neurotoxin is not more potent than other toxins, it just prohibits movement and slowly worsens over time until you die. Unless the common Dune Scorpion has magical properties, I believe it should be held to physical standards. (Unlike a spell [i.e. Antimatter])

Maybe a way to "prohibit movement" would be to reduce the chance of successful draws? Or simply find a venom/toxin that does, in fact, worsen with movement. Kind of a nit-picky topic, but neurotoxin is what it is and isn't what it isn't.

[serprex]

Antimatter doesn't invert charge in physics. The mass cancels out
I put paralyze in quotes, because it metaphorically paralyzes one's hand. & by hand I meant your hand of cards, not your literal hand
I don't know why spells should have less critique than creatures

If you want Dune Scorpion nerfed, don't get off topic with realism. This topic needs to stay focused on the balance of neurotoxin (which this is really about)

What should neurotoxin's cost be? It is currently 3 + ~1 (non-time) + 2 cards. The effect is non stackable

Note that Dune Scorpion gets less out of being upgraded than most cards, as 2 health isn't useful for a card whose primary purpose is to get one attack. Does this make it OP in unupped environments? Or does the unupped environment make a Dune Scorpion too slow?

[Plastica]

..Antimatter is matter that consists of antiprotons, antinuetrons, and positrons. So, converting matter into antimatter (with the supernatural spell, Antimatter) would not change the mass of said matter, but it would invert it's electrical charge. The point I'm making is that charge and mass are comparable to a creature's power and HP in this circumstance (where a spell would be changing the make-up of a creature).

However, I still don't understand how your hand could be metaphorically paralyzed if you can still place them.. Or how the venom would spread to your cards in the first place.. Or the correlation between a paralyzed hand of cards and damage being dealt to the holder of said cards. This is obviously not the case. The cards are obviously not the subject of poisoning or paralysis.. We are not discussing metaphorical toxin..

A spell is less likely to be considered unrealistic in a game because spells are already supernatural. They do not claim, in the first place, to be of scientific nature. There is, however, a science behind toxins.

I don't see why changing neurotoxin's mechanic to something more realistic and fitting can't also be the same solution to balancing or "nerfing" Dune Scorpion. I am indeed offering ideas that realistically nerf this card as well as putting in my two cents regarding the unrealistic mechanic that is currently in place.

However, If I'm discouraged by you from posting such opinions on this topic, could you please direct me to the section of the forums that is meant for such a discussion?

[serprex]

However, If I'm discouraged by you from posting such opinions on this topic, could you please direct me to the section of the forums that is meant for such a discussion?

Good point. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be one. But it's important to realize a forum topic will have a difficult time maintaining two topics (the realism of Dune Scorpion and the balance of Dune Scorpion) so you're going to have to pick what you want this topic to be about. Saying that adding realism can be done in conjunction with nerfing Dune Scorpion presupposes the imbalance of Dune Scorpion, which hasn't been demonstrated in this topic

While this board's guideline suggests only creating one topic per card, it may be best if two topics are opened on Dune Scorpion: one to determine the balance of the current Dune Scorpion, and one to brainstorm realistic neurotoxin effects

[Keolino]

The only reason why everybody dislikes the Dune Scorpion is because there is an annoying AI3 playing with a time stall deck. If you play Dune Scorpion without stall, he is one weak fellow.
Looking at it from another point of view (card combinations i normally use):

Deathstalker + Nighfall = 2 poison damage per turn
Forest Scorpion + Adrenalin = 2 poison damage per turn
Dune Scorpion + Momentum or Adrenaline = 1 poison damage per turn + 1 for each card

3 Turns:

3 Death Stalkers + 1 Nightfall = damage: 27, Poison: 18

3 Forest Scorpion, 2 Adrenaline = damage: 42 Poison: 15

3 Dune Scorpion, 3 Blessing (if you don´t play cards) = damage: 33 Poison: 9

3 Dune Scorpion, 3 Blessing (if you play 3 cards after each of his turns, (9 cards total)) = damage: 42 Poison: 18

3 Dune Scorpion, 3 Momentum (if you play 3 cards after each of his turns, (9 cards total)) = damage: 24 Poison: 18



------> Well, they have pretty much the same power. And every one of them gets stronger in about the same amount (even if you play 3! cards per turn) And here i even asumed that you draw 3 of the buff cards for the dune scorpion. (well, if you use anyone of them in a stall deck, they all get annoying, not only the dune scorpion)

[Plastica]

Good point. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be one. But it's important to realize a forum topic will have a difficult time maintaining two topics (the realism of Dune Scorpion and the balance of Dune Scorpion) so you're going to have to pick what you want this topic to be about. Saying that adding realism can be done in conjunction with nerfing Dune Scorpion presupposes the imbalance of Dune Scorpion, which hasn't been demonstrated in this topic

While this board's guideline suggests only creating one topic per card, it may be best if two topics are opened on Dune Scorpion: one to determine the balance of the current Dune Scorpion, and one to brainstorm realistic neurotoxin effects

I honestly don't feel that will be necessary at all. Considering the massive unlikelihood that anybody's suggested changes will be implemented into the game, I feel that no particular suggestion or brand of suggestion takes precedence over another. The section of the forum that this topic is contained within reads: "Game Suggestions and Feedback Do you have an idea on how to improve Elements? Please post it here." I believe the posts that you claimed do not belong here may just be right at home. There are no existing rules regarding any of your complaints against the content of my posts. However, there is, as you mentioned, a rule against two topics being created regarding duplicate cards. If you would like to create this mentioned topic, that is completely up to your own discretion; but on that note, I will not be. It is not my decision to  "pick what I want this topic to be about," as you said. I will, however, continue to offer my personal feedback in the Game Suggestions and Feedback section. I'm sorry if this offends you in any manner, or makes it any more difficult for you to follow this thread.

Unfortunately, I am not too skilled at equations and comparisons (as you seem to be); so, yes, my contribution lies in "brainstorming". I guarantee that there is room for both of our brands of suggestions (that will most likely not change a thing) in the infinite space of this one thread.