Vault Building Discussion

[willng3]

It goes without saying that the decisions we make in this thread will likely affect how well we do for the rest of the War.

Now, before we go any further I would like for each of you to take a good look at this card:

Spoiler for Hidden:

After you've looked at it long enough I want you to picture this card being blown to pieces with an explosion so powerful that it removes it from the game.  I want you to transfer all of the hatred that you have into hating this card.  Yes, it's that bad.  Or maybe I should say it's that good?  Dim Shield is one of the most problematic cards that we will encounter during this War, and several of the things that we put into our Vault will need to be centered around countering this card.  Why is Dim Shield so bad?  Well for one, Life has absolutely nothing that can go around the card except by attempting to out-Heal/out-stall the deck that's using the Dims.  But now we encounter the next problem:  Decks that use Dim Shields in War will likely either carry Lightnings, Fractals, or PUs along with them.  Lightnings are a problem because it makes it significantly harder for us to stall using Empathic Bonds.  Fractal and PU are probably the best stallbreakers in the game and can rip through Heal spam and Bonds pretty quickly.  So Aether altogether is pretty problematic for us, but it can countered with enough preparation.
With that out of the way, let's review the vault specifics for us:
- Starting vault is 333 cards - how much I paid for the 5 of you guys.  Since I paid 20, this gives us 313 cards to work with at the start.
- At least 50% of what goes into the vault must be Life cards.
- Maximum of 18 for each Life card except Pends and Pillars.
- Maximum of 9 for each non-Life card except Pends and Pillars.
- No Shards and no new cards from the 1.32 update.

I prefer to build the vault based on decks we want to take and then use remaining cards for things that we might want to splash into other decks such as Deflags or Momentum.  I think that usually helps to keep us organized rather than creating a list of random cards we think would be good to take and then building a vault around that.  So it should actually go like this:  Think of cards which will help us during this War --> Build decks around those cards --> Take some of those decks and put them into the vault --> Use leftover cards for things we might need later on.

I'll save my thoughts on what I think would be good to take for later on, right now I'd like to hear opinions from the rest of you on what we should take.  For reference on what kinds of decks were used last War, take a look at this topic:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38941.0.html

[nensuru]

I have wasting some time before war trying to figure out good decks for this meta, here they are:

Spoiler for immolation rush:

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5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5cg 5cg 5cg 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f2 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 7bu 7bu 7bu 8po

I believe this is the strong deck i build, it has insane burst damage and good anti-cc mechanism in form of phoenix. The nymphs can be traded for emerald dragons, but this deck dont do that well if it has less than 2 nymphs.

Spoiler for fire stall:

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Winning conditions of this one are either decking out or 1 turn burst with fire bolt. We can add some extra strategic cards: fahren, rain of fire.

Spoiler for pu gons:

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5bt 5bt 5bt 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 624 624 80b 80b 80b 8pu

This deck is a mimic of team light pu gons from war 5.

Spoiler for devtosis:

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Slim version of the war 5 devtosis, with addition of cloaks to stop the strongest counter to this deck: early cc cards. Still this deck is rather weak imo.

Good decks from war 5:

Spoiler for frogtal:

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5bu 5bu 5bu 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 622 622 622 622 624 624 624 624 7ae 7ae 7ae 8pu

Spoiler for adrenatitan:

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Well, this is it, fell free to talk about the decks and suggest changes - now is the time to do this.

We got 313 cards, this means that we need 10 decks, lets try to make them as competitive as possible.

[UnderneathTheLens]

Psions and Silences are nice non-PC counters to dim shield.

I'm not sure about the immolation rush, especially since I'm the only person who can field it in its current state. Alternatives would be a graboid rush.

I would definitely put Fahrenheits in the firestall.

PUGons is pretty classic, and so I agree that it's a good deck to put in.

Devtosis is all right. As you said, the deck is quite slow, and unable to stall early on.

Frogtal is another classic, and we used adrenatitans to great effectiveness last war.


However, these are all decks we used last war, and when our opponents look for possible matchups, they look to the decks we've used in the past. Therefore, I think we should use at least some different decks if possible. I'm not the best deckbuilder though, so I'm still thinking.

[willng3]

Yeah we probably shouldn't take decks with Nymphs if most of us can't use it.

My ideas for deckbuilding this time were to incorporate some classics along with some decks/strategies that weren't used last War.  A perfect example of this would be Psions, as they weren't introduced during vault construction.  Decks using Nymph's Tears may also be worth looking into since the buff to several Nymphs occurred in the middle of the last War as well.

Something else I'd be interested in looking into using would be Scorpions.  I didn't use these last time because I figured that they'd either be too easily countered or they'd make a good surprise factor for the following War.  Good deck ideas which use these are Momentum Scorps, Fractal Scorps, and a Death/Life Poison duo.  Also, a Mitosis Emerald Dragon rush with Chimeras powered off the mark might be fast enough to break through some of the slower decks we might face.

[Belligerence]

Yeah we probably shouldn't take decks with Nymphs if most of us can't use it.

My ideas for deckbuilding this time were to incorporate some classics along with some decks/strategies that weren't used last War.  A perfect example of this would be Psions, as they weren't introduced during vault construction.  Decks using Nymph's Tears may also be worth looking into since the buff to several Nymphs occurred in the middle of the last War as well.

Something else I'd be interested in looking into using would be Scorpions.  I didn't use these last time because I figured that they'd either be too easily countered or they'd make a good surprise factor for the following War.  Good deck ideas which use these are Momentum Scorps, Fractal Scorps, and a Death/Life Poison duo.  Also, a Mitosis Emerald Dragon rush with Chimeras powered off the mark might be fast enough to break through some of the slower decks we might face.

I love the Chimera idea. That's brilliant, and gives us a nice surprise factor against DimShield based decks. I know last war I made a Life/Death poison based deck, I'll see if I can find the code because it seemed pretty stable.

*EDIT* I'll make this my post for deck ideas, so just check this one once in a while. I found the code for my Life/Death stall.

Spoiler for deck ideas:

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[nensuru]

Building some ideas just to keep things going. Keep in mind that these decks will probably need more refinng so dont hesitate do post feedback.

Spoiler for chimera:

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560 560 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5c9 5c9 5c9 7ac 7ac 7ac 8pl

Good deck that doesnt have too much weakness aside from being outrushed against pure rushes, quanta denial and expecific cc (rt, bb or freeze).

Spoiler for psion:

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It is basically adrena spider/psion + tu, good burst damage (15 dmg per adrena spider) and shield bypass (9 damage per adrena psion) as well. You can also PU the enemy creature and use adrenaline on it, good example of this is graboid who have the 8 atk sweetspot.

Spoiler for poison/scorpion:

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Spoiler for scorpion/darkness domination:

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Famous darkness domination deck, counters fractal and immolation/nova decks well by filling the opponent hand with useless cards. Nightmares also works well with scorps because it delays a draw and heals you, making the game longer which is good for the poison thing.

[Belligerence]

Alright, so in the team chat, we've come up with a ton of interesting/possible ideas. The main point of this particular post is to find (what I think are) stable builds for most of them. I'll probably add a small writeup for each deck about my personal opinion. Take it as you see fit. Without further ado, lets go!

Spoiler for Frogtal:

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This is taken from will's post and is probably the best all around build. The really nice thing about Frogtal is if you plan ahead, it's highly customizable.

Consider bringing along some Lightnings, extra DimShields, and Lobotomizers in the Vault for extra customization.

Spoiler for PUgons:

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Taken directly from Vault building from last War. This is another highly customizable deck, with a large amount of burst potential which makes it a potential winner against stalls.

Spoiler for Fire Stall:

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OR

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5c4 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f7 5f7 5f7 5gi 5gi 8po

Once again, I took these from drolly's post last War, since I've never really been good at making Fire Stalls. Not much to say really, both seem like a decent deck, but the larger one might be worth taking simply because we can use a lot of the cards in other decks, in case we have to dismantle it.

Spoiler for FFQ/Hope:

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OR

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My suggestion is for the second one. I played both version of these last War, and the first one is highly susceptible to RNG trolling, while the second is fairly stable.

Spoiler for AdrenaTitans:

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Flying titans are both extraordinarily hard to stop as well as pretty fast. It's somewhat combo based, and the amount of ugprades means only will and UTL can use it for the first few rounds. Might be worth taking just because this deck laughs at shields.

Spoiler for AdrenaStaves:

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Modified based on wills suggestion to add a few Thorn Carapaces... which seems to be an excellent idea, at least in the 3-4 games I played with this. I added the dragons after a couple games of drowning in Life quanta and lacking some damage... they can be removed/replaced without much impact on the deck.

Spoiler for Novabow:

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55q 590 590 590 590 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c1 5c1 5c5 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f6 5og 61q 8pm

Yet another of Helstons suggestions last war, I think this Novabow is my favorite of the ones suggested.

Spoiler for AdrenaScorps:

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55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 745 745 745 8pl

This is basically the best I could come up with, and its pretty bad honestly. Any ideas for a better version?

[willng3]

These were the two decks I played around with the most today:

Spoiler for MitoGuards/Mercs:

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Works well against slower decks, but without 6 Guards it's probably not going to work as well regardless of the situation.

Spoiler for AdrenaScorps:

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4sn 55q 55q 55q 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 745 745 745 8pl

Substitute a Pillar for the Life Mark.  I see that a similar build has been posted, but I'm not having any problems with this one regarding quanta draws, damage, etc.  Try it out and see how it feels in any case.

nen's Chimera Dragons build is identical to the one I was running except mine uses -1 Pillar +1 Dragon.  I'd advise taking 6 Dragons to avoid not drawing one in the opening hand, but either one should work in most cases.

Also went and modded the Poison stall a bit to produce this:

Spoiler for Hidden:

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Quanta production is much faster here, which allows for faster Poison damage production, faster Bone Wall use, and faster setup in general.

Usually when I build decks I tend to make them hover around 13 quanta producers unless it's something like a Novabow.  I find that this helps to keep you from drawing 1 Pillar or Pend in your opening hand in most cases.

I should have more to add later.

[UnderneathTheLens]

Adrenastaves

Deck:

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Spoiler for Light:

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(beat us twice last time with this)
Game 1 - Win - Started with 2 pillars and plenty of staves and flying weapons. Adrenaline was a bit late, but it was enough to save me. Close game.
Game 2 - Win - 1 Pillar draw, but he also had a bad start, so I won (another close game though)
Game 3 - Win - 1 Pillar draw, but it didn't matter. blah. blah.
Game 4 - Win - 4 Pillar draw, but no staves for the first few turns. Got one at the last second for the win
Game 5 - Win - 3 Pilalr draw, he had bad start
Verdict: Good enough.

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Game 1 - Loss - Decked out
Game 2 - Win - Decked him out
Not gonna play more, it's obvious.
Verdict: 50/50

Spoiler for Fire:

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4so 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fk 5fk 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 621 7dg 7f2 8pu

Game 1 - Win - Spine Carapaces are pretty cool; he never got a dim shield out for some reason
Game 2 - Probably Loss - He had early Red Nymph, the AI was just too stupid to rage my staves
Game 3 - Toss Up - Again, he didn't rage my staves. The only reason I came close was b/c the carapace kept killing his phoenixes
Verdict: Probably our loss

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5ur 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pm

Game 1 - Win
Game 2 - Win
Game 3 - Win
Game 4 - Win
Game 5 - Win
Verdict: Easy Win

Spoiler for Entropy:

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Game 1 - Win - He had nice damage and nice control, but I had healing. A lot of healing. His discord was too late.
Game 2 - Loss - Bastard had turn 2 discord, and I had a 1 pillar draw. No chance.
Game 3 - Win - His control came late
Game 4 - Loss - Only drew one stave. He antimattered it. (The spine carapace killed his nymph though, so that's good, I guess).
Game 5 - Loss - Deckout. He had a phenomenal draw - 2nd turn Discord, 4th turn nymph. I also had a very good draw. My carapace eventually killed off his nymph, but I already had a few antimattered staves. (I had to play them to heal). His Diss sealed the deal.
Verdict: Completely depends on his draw, but I wouldn't recommend playing this deck with adrenastaves.

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4vg 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 542 542 71a 71a 8pk

Game 1 - Win
Game 2 - Win - Wow this game was fun! I was owning at first, punching through bonewalls after another. Then came a diss shield. I beat that too. Then one of his pandes TUed my adrenastave. Carapace c:
Game 3 - Loss - He won with 6 HP because he got lucky with Pandes and cleared my whole field
Game 4 - Win - Won on my last card lol. His pandas took out almost all my staves and PUed one, so it turned into a tug of war. After I finally got rid of it, I had to punch through a diss shield, which took a long time. But I made it in time c:
Game 5 - Loss - Single staff in 19 cards, got it loboed.
Verdict: Even though adrenastaves counter Bone Wall and Poison very nicely, the Pandes and Disses can still be dangerous. This is a mostly likely win though.

Spoiler for Earth:

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Game 1 - Loss - Deckout
Verdict: No way. Titanium/Diamond shield blocks all staff damage. I even adrenalined the dragons, but still nowhere enough damage to break the stall.

Spoiler for Death:

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52l 52l 52l 52o 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 542 542 542 542 542 593 593 593 593 593 71a 71a 8pm

Game 1 - Loss - Second turn skull shield and EQ
Game 2 - Loss - Ditto
Game 3 - Win - Turn 2 skull shield, but I had good pillar draw and his EQs were late
Game 4 - Win - Close and long game, my early carapace saved the day
Game 5 - Loss - He had no skull shield, but all I had was a single staff. Did not draw more.
Verdict: Would not recommend this. Skull shield and EQ are pretty deadly.

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52t 52t 542 542 542 542 542 542 542 61t 61t 713 713 713 713 713 713 71a 71a 80d 80d 80d 8pu

Game 1 - Win - Big tug of war between his dmg and my healing, but he ran out of dims. GG.
Game 2 - Loss - AHHH HE DECKED ME OUT. -.- THIS. DECK. NEEDS. MORE. CARDS. Otherwise, I would've won. Early carapace = awesome.
Game 3 - Loss - Ditto.
Verdict: This deck isn't so bad. It's just the dims and the fact that it was one more card.

Overall, this deck doesn't do well against any deck with Dim Shields or Stalls, as it has low damage potential. It can respond to rushes okay though, since it has great healing potential. I would most definitely suggest 1-2 extra cards.

This should be good.

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[Belligerence]

Testing time! I'll go through the list of decks we lost against that I posted in the other thread, and pick a couple of those to test each of these decks against. Results will be posted below.

Spoiler for Poison Stall:

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AGAINST:

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4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61r 61u 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 7dm 7dm 81q 8pm

Game 1: WIN. It's clear the AI is bad at this game, what with it Deflagging my BW and killing my Scorpions when BW has 1 charge left, but it would have probably been a win anyway.
Game 2: LOSE: Started off with 2 pillars and all 5 BW. AI happily killed anything I put out, and spammed Shriekers.
Game 3: WIN: Got a good, fast poison start, but no BW. I drew and played my first BW on the same turn I would have lost, but when I drew a second one the next turn, it turned into a comfortable win.
Game 4: WIN: Easy win. Lots of poison, 4 BW in total drawn. Even if the AI had Deflagged the Arsenic instead of a BW, I had more than enough poison.
Game 5: WIN: Bad draws on both sides, but a late BW secured the win for me, even with a really low poison counter.

Conclusion: Somewhat of a counter. Fairly luck based.

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Game 1: LOSE: BW has nothing at all against Momentum.
Game 2: LOSE: A bit closer, but read game 1.
Game 3: LOSE: A bad draw on my end, but I wouldn't have won anyway.
Skipping the next 2 games, its obvious who wins.
Not a counter.

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5t2 5t2 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ro 5s4 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7ri 7ri 7t9 7th 7tb 8pt

Game 1: LOSE: A close game, but ultimately RT/Nightmare denied me a chance to draw a second BW.
Game 2: LOSE: Not quite as close as game 1, but it still coulda gone either way. Low quanta + draw denial won in the end.
Game 3: WIN: Another close round, the AI played/drew RT too late to stop my poison from building up.
Game 4: LOSE: Draw denial beats this deck, rather badly.
Skipping the next game.
Not a counter, draw denial is too powerful against this deck.

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5ur 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pm

Game 1: WIN: Won with 1 HP. BW OP.
Game 2: WIN: BW kept me "safely" above 30ish HP. Playing them as soon as you can, and replacing them even if they have a couple layers left really makes a difference.
Game 3: WIN: Once again, BW wins.
Game 4: WIN: I misplayed my BW, but AI got a slow start. Almost assuredly would have been a loss if the AI got a better start.
Game 5: LOSE: Outrushed. I only drew 1 BW, which wasn't nearly enough. Well, it was almost enough, I lost by 1 turn.
Sort of a counter.

Spoiler for PUgons:

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 61q 61q 61q 61q 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 80b 80b 80b 8pu

AGAINST

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4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vd 4vd 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vg 4vl 4vl 500 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 6u9 6u9 8pj

Game 1: LOSE: Didn't think about Discord, which came out 1 turn before my first planned DimShield and totally wrecked me. Maxwell's didn't help things, either.
Game 2: LOSE: Second turn Discord completely shut me down. With my low quanta start, I never got a single non pillar/pend card out.
Game 3: LOSE: Got a really high quanta start, powered through Discord to lay out a DimShield... and promptly got my first 4 dragons wrecked by 2 both Pandes, a Maxwell's and Purple Nymph. DimShield chain ran out eventually.
Skipping the next 2 games. Definitely NOT a counter.

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5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5od 5og 5og 5on 5on 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5up 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 7mt 7mt 7mv 7mv 7mv 7mv 7tb 7tb 8pt

Game 1: LOSE: Nightmare slowed me down quite a bit, while an unexpected Steal left me helpless with no replacement DimShield in my hand.
Game 2: LOSE: Nightmare only gave me 1 dragon since I was expecting it, but Steal once again left me helpless with no DimShield in hand.
Game 3: LOSE: Exactly the same as the last game, the AI manages to time its Steal to coincide with when I have no replacement DimShield.
Not a counter.

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rm 5ro 5ru 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 7q5 7q5 7q5 8pu

Game 1: WIN: Only because the AI doesn't know how to play Ghostal. I think this matchup would almost surely be a loss for us.
Definitely not a counter.

[willng3]

More deck ideas to dump off:

Spoiler for Grabbow:

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4sn 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c1 5c1 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 5v1 61q 77f 7ae 7dm 8pm

Pulvy + Explosion allows a max of 4 Permanents to be destroyed throughout a game.  Nightmare and Lightning are pretty much just utility cards and can be switched out and exchanged as needed, although they do help the deck a lot.  With more upgrades it may be better to forgo Adrenaline completely and just go with Giant Frog spam, but as is it typically hovers around 7-8TTW.

Spoiler for Nymph's AdrenaStaves:

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c3 5c3 5c3 5c5 5c5 5c5 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pp

This is pretty much the only deck using NT that I'd advise taking, as the others are very prone to Dims without the stall power that AdrenaStaves are capable of.  Works well against stalls as well given that a swarm of Nymphs with Adrenaline is nothing to scoff at.

I'm going to advise against taking FFQ this War...I wasn't very satisfied with the speed of any of them that I was working with in testing since that's a sign that we're going to give our opponents too much time to set up before we get a chance to wall them off with Flies + Hope.

nen's Darkness duo works very well, I've found.  I switched a Scorp for a Dragon because I had a lot of extra quanta, but it's fine either way really.

Working on finding a counter to Discord besides the obvious Grabbow, since I can already foresee Entropy giving us problems because of it.

[willng3]

Alright so this is the deck I've concocted for Entropy:

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5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c5 5c5 5c5 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5oc 5oc 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5on 5on 5on 5on 5on 5on 5oo 5oo 5oo 7n8 7n8 7n8 8pr

I was previously running this version -3 Staves, +2 Heals, +1 Pend which completely destroys that Mono Entropy deck of theirs, but it doesn't stand much of a chance against Pandebonium.  So then I added the Staves.  The Staves shake off the Poison damage very nicely and assuming the opponent doesn't draw all 6 Poisons in their opening hand and you actually manage to draw a Wings for Arsenic, it should be an easy win.

The modifications make the Mono Entropy matchup closer, but most of the problems from that arise from a low quanta start and not drawing any Wings (for some reason I haven't had any problems drawing OE).  Druidic Staff also helps against Discord trolling, as it allows for extra stalling as you wait to get the quanta you need to play Wings.  The key is to never play Shockwaves on anything except Dragons unless your Wings fades away and you find yourself at the mercy of 400000000000000000 Aboms.

Grabbows shouldn't stand a chance here, as Shockwaves decimate them and Staves heal off any early damage they may deal to you to prevent them from evolving 6 Graboids and Deflag'ing our Wings.  Shockwaves also destroy flying Discord madness.