Author

Belligerence · « **on:** May 24, 2012, 02:46:55 am »

Had a bunch of free time tonight, so I figured I'd go ahead and compile the information we know so far.

Battles:

Kai attacks

(three players set to defend)

Belligerence attacks

(four players set to defend)

UnderneathTheLens attacks

(five players set to defend)

drolly attacks

(three players set to defend)

killsdazombies attacks

(three players set to defend)

attacks

(two players set to defend)

MartyrX attacks

(two players set to defend)

Our used/usable cards:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Attackable elements in order of Vault size (most cards first):

Attackable elements:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hey! Why are you looking to attack us?!

Spoiler for Hidden:

Elements we can't attack:

Spoiler for Water:

Since we can't attack them, analyzing their cards/support team members/etc is not useful, and thus I opted to not include that information.

This lists all the elements that have won/lost against a lieutenant this round.

Edit: All card lists are now complete, and (hopefully) error free.

Second Edit: Note that I'm only human, if you notice something wrong with the lists above, either edit it or let me know please. Just found a couple errors with the Entropy list.

Edit: Replaced numbers of support team members by numbers of defenders. Notice that

and

are attacking us. -- drolly

willng3 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2012, 09:47:41 am »

With so few Elements being open to attack I think it's a good idea to stock up on our defense a bit more than last Round. Therefore I'm going to say we should have 2 members on defense and have the rest attack the other Elements. We can do 1 for each or stockpile against the ones we think are weakest; I don't think either one will make a big difference overall.

Belligerence · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2012, 02:49:25 pm »

Alright, to get things moving, here are a few ideas/skeletons:

Stolen from drolly's post in the Round 3 Support Team Discussion thread:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Stolen from Helston, also in the Round 3 Support Team Discussion thread:

Spoiler for Hidden:

I was gonna add some ideas of my own, but apparently I can't seem to come up with any stable ideas that aren't listed above.

We have access to DimShield/Parallel Universe/Silence, so maybe PUgons?
We could also run a DimShield/Heal/(Sanctuary, if we're comfortable with a trio?) deckout deck.
The Blitzing Spirits I seem to post every round.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Some kind of Earth duo so we can spam Earthquakes/Shriekers maybe?

*Cough* this is what I meant when I said "I can't seem to come up with any stable ideas".

Helston · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2012, 01:11:10 am »

I'll make myself Lieutenant and post some actions ~4 hours before the deadline if no one else has, just so we have something posted. Don't have time to look into it now. If we think we'd have better actions, feel free to override my post in the Support Team actions thread and change the Lieutenant, but I won't be online after I post those actions so someone else would have to do it.

So far I'll attack a spattering of teams and set 2 to defence.

killsdazombies · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2012, 01:22:05 am »

I have been thinking about this.

I say we set 2 to defend, one to earth, one to aether, 2-3 to gravity, that puts us at 7, do we have 7, or 8?

EDIT: Im pretty sure were at 7 now, and gravity only has one relic, so i suggest we do this.

1 earth
1 aether
1 darkness
1 gravity
1 entropy
2 defend.

killsdazombies · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:36:36 am »

Double post for the alert, does anyone have any problems at all with the list?

Helston · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:21:44 am »

Looks fine to me, I'll fix up the actions thread and team roles.

Belligerence, Blitzing Spirits doesn't seem to work too well. Although it's not a trio per se, it certainly acts like one and the overall combination of cards just isn't too strong.

First things first, get the easy ones done.

attacking

Entropy are very limited here. A PUgon with Lightnings should answer anything they can bring out at us, while being a nice bit of revenge for round 3's support battles.

Spoiler for PUgon:

MartyrX attacking

Again very limited. Looks like their options are Mitosis Wardens or an Immorush, probably with Wardens used as fodder. Maybe even with a plate armour or two thrown in. Either way a good stall should take care of them, like:

Spoiler for wings stall:

Now for the hard ones. Three defenders is enough to assume they're unrestricted, excluding rares. Unfortunately all teams we're attacking have three or more defenders. I just don't know which decks to match up to which opponent.

Spoiler for my deck thoughts:

Nothing says we can't use the same deck for multiple matchups, so I think we should double up on one of those stalls above if we can.

Out of all the matches, Aether has me the most stumped. Dim Shields are our biggest foe, and we can't use Deflag. And to add more worry to our woes, they could very easily fractal or PU us down while hiding behind dims. Like Belligerence suggested, maybe something with EQ? Unfortunately I tried to make something like that last support round and didn't come up with anything useful.

Finally, I'd like to avoid using an aether duo ourselves this round simply so we can push the idea of us using Dims/Silences as far out of Death's mind as we possibly can.

drolly · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2012, 10:49:04 pm »

Okay, I feel like I really should do something for my team, I've been very inactive this week. So here's some brainstorming about "my" opponent,

:

The cowards decided for three defenders and are thus able to field nearly every rareless deck, as Helston said (not that they had been much restricted before). I expect them to make heavy use of their element's inherent skill, Momentum, which makes Dim Shield and Bone Wall look like wasted quanta. If I were them, I'd consider Mito or Fractal Chargers a candidate against the oh-so-weak element. In their only support team match against Fire, they decided for Fractal Chargers and got hard-countered by Unstable Gas. Our only counter against Chargers is heavy creature control - Ragepots or Lightnings - or a fast deck. For the latter, it doesn't help very much that our two rush powerhouses, Adrenaline and Mitosis, aren't accessible this time.

Let's be pessimistic and let Gravity counter every single one of our decks:

Toadbow, Grabbow - Black Hole, Dimensional Shield.
Firestall - could get broken by Fractal Chargers, some Rains of Fire can be helpful here. Also, Accelerated Armagios or Dolls.
Any deck with Forest Spirits or Fireflies - Otyugh.
Any deck relying on shields (like Wings), Poison stall - Momentum, duh.

Looks like I don't get much further this way ... For a moment, I thought a Firestall would be best for us as it doesn't contain any edible creatures and has a chance against powerful shields. Yeah, I'm sure they'll use these and am a bit scared of them. Deflagration is forbidden, so how about Momentum (well, on which creature when dragons are unavailable)? Also, I'm getting afraid of Accelerated Armagios now. The only counter to them is Reverse Time - is that a reason for a Life/Time duo, whatever that looks like?

My brain's demanding sleep and refusing to sort out things at the moment. So, I have to leave now with a rather unsatisfied look on my face:

willng3 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2012, 12:26:14 am »

Seeing all of these stalls reminded me of the Entropy stall I had considered using during Trials. But since I can't seem to locate the deck code, I'll post a rough draft of another for now:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vc 4vc 4vg 4vg 4vg 4vg 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vo 4vo 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 8pj

I'd be careful of using variants of this deck against decks with heavy PC. It can potentially stop Aether duos whether they be PUgons or Fractal decks thanks to Dissipation Shield, Pandemonium and Antimatter, but only if the Shields can be used to give you any defense in the first place. It might be useful for some match-up, though it probably warrants a fair amount of tweaking.

I also think it's perfectly possible to create some type of an Air stall using OE, Shockwave and Wings, but I'll need to think on that a bit more.

EDIT: Or it would be if OE weren't rare -_-

Oh, and another random idea that just came out of nowhere:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5om 5om 5om 5om 5om 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 8pr

Stall with Heals and Sundials, accelerate drawing with Sundials, OTK with UG with a bit of help from the Scorps. I have absolutely no idea how this would work in any of these match-ups, but this might be a good bit of inspiration.

And one last idea, though it's just a bit of a different take on a previous idea:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c3 5c3 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5de 5de 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 8pn

This basically incorporates rush and stall into one deck build. It has a ridiculous number of Water Pillars just to allow easier Nymph spamming. What type of Nymph you choose to create depends on the opponent you're facing and how your quanta distribution is looking at that moment. Thus far I'm 4-0 against Death's deck that they used last round (Thorn Carapace helps A LOT here) and it should be able to take out anything using Dim Shields by spamming Nymphs and then using Bonds in the mid to late game unless we're facing a different type of PUgons. PC probably sucks for it though.

Belligerence · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2012, 01:37:40 am »

Alright, here's a few (very) roughly tested ideas. "Roughly tested" means I played a couple matches against AI3. Lol.

Earth duo, Earthquake provides a bit of early denial, Basilisk Blood buys you time to get more poison/damage out.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

593 593 593 593 595 595 595 595 595 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 8pm

After the first game, a human (hopefully) wouldn't play a bunch of towers at once, so results are probably skewed.

Poor man's RoL/Hope

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lk 5lk 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 8pq

The idea is there, but it needs balancing. This is a deckout deck, as 6 Photons are hardly gonna kill the enemy.

Mutation/PC deck

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vd 4vd 4vm 4vm 4vm 4vo 4vo 4vo 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 8pj

I spent at least an hour switching between the Life cards and Darkness cards trying to find a way to use both of them so we can use some PC: Steal. I suddenly realized something... Butterfly Effect isn't rare, Entropy has a nice synergy with life (Druid), and mutation could be used as CC. This is a bit random, but if you pray to the RNG goddess that your Rustler/Photon won't die, it works great. Just be sure not to mutate the creature you use BE on >.>

Death duo

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52r 52r 52r 52r 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 8pk

Poison! A bit slow, and -1 Scorpion, +1 Bonewall might not be a bad idea.

They can all do with a bit of balancing, probably, but they should be workable ideas.

Spoiler for Hidden:

drolly · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2012, 11:31:47 pm »

Quote from: willng3 on May 27, 2012, 12:26:14 am

Oh, and another random idea that just came out of nowhere:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5om 5om 5om 5om 5om 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 8pr

Stall with Heals and Sundials, accelerate drawing with Sundials, OTK with UG with a bit of help from the Scorps. I have absolutely no idea how this would work in any of these match-ups, but this might be a good bit of inspiration.

I'm in love with this deck. Sundial is the right card against those unkillable Gravity creatures and Unstable Gas doesn't care about (most) shields. And it's something very unexpected ... a Gravity/Fire duo with pretty Deflags could wreck it, however.

So I did some quick testing against the Gravity deck prototypes I deem most likely:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55l 55l 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 622 63a 63a 8pu

If your draw isn't too unlucky, it's a safe win, if not a hard counter. The scorpions seem to ensure that you need 1 UG less.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55v 55v 55v 561 561 562 562 562 562 562 8pl

This is one of the most brutal Mono Gravity decks I could think of (add Momentum for more spice - it isn't needed here so I left it out). You shouldn't rely on an OTK combo, instead only play Novas when you can ignite an UG and play a Sundial on the same turn. The healing by the Black Holes (>=13 HP each!) will give you a headache. You have to get your Scorpions out but a single GP Armagio can prevent your opponent from getting poisoned

Against Accelerated Armagios the Entropy stall seems to have a much better chance but I imagine it to be not that powerful versus Fractal Chargers.

Unfortunately, I have to announce that it's likely that I need a sub for my match.

Helston · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2012, 09:31:10 am »

This post is a work in progress.

Kai's just sent me a PM asking about what deck he should use, here's my reply. UPDATE: Sent him a second message, he's trying to set up the match.

Spoiler for response to Kai:

Spoiler for second message to Kai:

So, here are my current deck thoughts:

MartyrX attacking

What on earth was I thinking before? I mention Wardens and then post a deck that's smashed by them. Working on something now, some form of adrenarush, or deck with 6x (insert CC card here).

~~Actually, I might just try out will's nymph duo. And again I go for a deck that's weak vs Wardens. New plan: Death stall.~~ I really need to cut to the chase more often, Firestall.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c4 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5gi 5gi 8po

attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 61q 61q 61q 61q 61r 61r 61r 61r 8pu

As mentioned earlier, this should do the trick.

Kai attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vc 4vc 4vc 4vg 4vg 4vg 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c3 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 8pj

I like the sound of an entropy stall, so I'm taking that idea and running with it. As much as I dislike running a stall without an alternative win condition, 3 scorpions probably won't be enough to beat another stall, even with butterfly effect. To make up for that I've made it a 41 card stall, just in case. Those scorps and BEs free up five more cards for more entropy quanta and Thorn Carapaces. Although they're both shields, I'm liking the synergy between Thorn Carapace and Dissipation Shield - if you can get out the Thorns first it makes cleaning up with Pandemoniums much easier, or even completely unnecessary.

Spoiler for testing:

2-5. Facing a Cocktal with this deck is one of the worst fractals we could face. The two gravity pillars are Emerald Dragons, which a smart player would learn not to play once we show our Antimatters. Between having 4HP and hitting the 4 attack sweet spot for Dissipation Shield they are a terrible opponent to come up against. Changing the deck so it's -1 AM, +1 Pande. The extra mass CC is really needed, or at least it is in this case.

From what I've seen, it should do much better vs other fractals, excluding chargers for obvious reasons. That 4th HP really makes a difference, as does the cheap 4 attack.

drolly attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5om 5om 5om 5om 5om 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 8pr

That UG deck might work pretty well vs gravity. Although it's possible, I'm doubtful we'll see black holes from gravity, we've only fielded one rainbow to little success, and I see no reason for us to even think of fielding it against them this round. will's version looks like it's the best build you can get. If we use it against gravity, the only thing they can throw at us to beat us is PC in the form of a fire/darkness duo, black hole or a dune scorpion deck. I'm thinking the first three are very unlikely and the fourth is a close match.

Spoiler for dune scorpions:

UTL attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 5og 5og 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 8pr

Hasty guess hoping they don't run a devtal. Or a ghostmare. This probably isn't our best choice for this match.

Any specific suggestions for this match would be well appreciated.

Belligerence attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 5og 5og 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 8pr

This is the team I'd rather use FFQ on. Taking all suggestions for darkness. This is mostly a guess, but what I think will work.

kdz (needs sub) attacking

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c4 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5gi 5gi 8po

The only thing better that one Firestall, is two. Like with vs

, a guess, but what I think will work.

Author

Belligerence

Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg502998#msg502998

willng3

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503086#msg503086

Belligerence

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503193#msg503193

Helston

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503421#msg503421

killsdazombies

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503427#msg503427

killsdazombies

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503485#msg503485

Helston

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg503547#msg503547

drolly

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg504391#msg504391

willng3

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg504425#msg504425

Belligerence

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg504440#msg504440

drolly

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg504817#msg504817

Helston

Re: Round 4 Support Team Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40611.msg504941#msg504941