New Passive Abilities

[Nepycros]

I'll point out my Archetype Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16966.0.html) simply to show that I have interest in passive abilities.

I recommend that passives such as the listed archetypes be considered, at the very least. Eva and I are on the same track, with the 'Evasive' suggestion she made, and the 'Fluid' ability I made.

[ZephyrPhantom]

@ZBlader could you give hypothetical examples of when a Passive is just barely too powerful to remain a passive?

Sure. For example:

Graviton Striker
4 | 3
Charging - Gains momentum every turn.


Normally momentum is balanced by it being removed by Lobomizer. However this card provides a case where one is unable to permanently remove momentum without using direct CC and thus combos with this card like Adrenaline and Chaos Power could become very dangerous since you basically have a creature that avoids shields no matter what.  It could be balanced by lowered attack, but then players would just use buff cards like Chaos Power and Blessing.


Thus, we have Saphire Charger who has Momentum as an active ability that can be removed. It's still viable in different deckbuilds like the above example could've been (Fractal Charger, BH/Discord), but it is controllable by Lobotomizer and results

Nepy's Fluid/Eva's Evasive idea makes me think of an interesting point though - some abilities like immaterial will have no difference from being passive or active, like immaterial since it can't be removed.

[Flayne]

sorry for misunderstanding, i generally get confused with such terms  ^^;

Edit: ninjad by zblader X(
I guess I could still add.

wouldn't an ability such as momentum or vampire generally be too strong to be a passive ability and normally be turned into an active passive ability?

Obsession for instance, is quite situational since it only relies on hand filling (nightmare) to be effective, therefore it's not justifiable to call it something powerful enough to be turned into an active passive ability just so it can be lobotomizable.
momentum is not too situational since shields are generally placed to protect ones self from one being damaged, ignoring shield effects isn't necessarily a mild enough effect to be placed as a passive ability, especially if the creature has a mid-high attack.

Im not sure how to directly answer that question, but I could say that if an effect is way too situational, such as Obsession, It should be placed as a passive ability.
The reverse of that would be, if something is not so situational and not very mild such as momentum, then it should become lobotomizable, in other words, become an active passive ability.

[moomoose]

a quick post before work- one of my old cards had a passive ability-
 "individual" :unable to be copied. 

this was a block for "this + fractal = OP" where the attack of the creature in question was based on the number of the creature in play, but it could also apply to mitosis nowadays.



on a tangent, i would love to see the ability categorization in the game go through a slight revamp.  something to the effect of: active abilities require activation, passive abilities are perpetually active until lobotomized, and innate abilities cannot be lobotomized.  having some perpetual skills like vampire count as an active ability just seems flawed.

[OldTrees]

on a tangent, i would love to see the ability categorization in the game go through a slight revamp.  something to the effect of: active abilities require activation, passive abilities are perpetually active until lobotomized, and innate abilities cannot be lobotomized.  having some perpetual skills like vampire count as an active ability just seems flawed.

I would support this but it would be easier if all 3 names were different from the current 2.
Moomoose would you please investigate where the original names came from and where they would need to be edited if this revamp occurs?

[moomoose]

couldnt find anything in the dev notes forum, admittedly it doesnt go back all the way.  SG did a write up on them here, but its mostly already known stuff- http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/basics/abilities/ . interestingly however she herself breaks down active abilities into the two groupings.  if we were to come up with new names for the three categories of abilities i would suggest

A) activated - requires clicking, can be lobotomized.  example : Phase Spider
activated : past participle, past tense of ac·ti·vate (Verb)
1. Make (something) active or operative.
   

B) innate - does not require clicking, can be lobotomized. example: Vampire
in·nate/iˈnāt/Adjective
1. Inborn; natural.


C) perpetual - does not require clicking, cannot be lobotomized, can potentially be removed by specific abilities such as web. example : Mummy
adjective /pərˈpeCHo͞oəl/ 
1. Never ending or changing


And after this breakdown, some creatures' skills may make more sense switching categories.  And I would suggest opening it up so you can have multiple innate abilities and mutliple perpetual abilities, but only one activated ability, as the way the game is currently coded you cannot select within lists of abilities to use.  although that may be interesting to do, it will probably be a coding nightmare.

[OldTrees]

Our main problem is in game the popup box calls Perpetual abilities Passive.
Since Lobotomy removes 1 Activated or Innate skill, creatures will only have 1 Activated or Innate skill.

Lets start this naming transition.
Activated Active --> Activated
Automatic Active --> Innate
Passive --> Perpetual

[moomoose]

out of curiosity, how are momentum, adrenaline, gravity pull, etc, classified?  lobo can remove them, and creatures can have more than one of them at a time

[OldTrees]

out of curiosity, how are momentum, adrenaline, gravity pull, etc, classified?  lobo can remove them, and creatures can have more than one of them at a time

Momentum and Immaterial are both Statuses and Innate abilities. The Symbol is the status half. They have all the vulnerabilities of Innate abilities (Lobotomy) and Statuses (none yet)
Adrenaline, Gravity Pull, Infection, Alfatoxin, Freeze and Delay are the other Statuses and cannot be removed by Lobo.

[johannhowitzer]

New passive ability: Armored

Reduces damage from all spells and abilities by 1.  This includes chaos seed and snipe, but not poison, and perhaps also not Fire Buckler.  Spells with multiple hits, such as Fire Bolt, would have each individual hit reduced.  Casting Plate Armor or Heavy Armor adds the passive to a creature in addition to its normal effect.  This idea is a direct import from my card idea Shunt | Primal Shunt. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16885.0.html)

Existing creatures with this passive:
  - Crusader
  - Gargoyle
  - Forest Scorpion
  - Bone Dragon, Skeleton, Deathstalker
  - Steam Machine
  - Wyrm
  - Antlion, Hematite Golem, Stone Dragon, Iridium Warden, flown Pulverizer
  - Sapphire Charger, Armagio, Graviton Mercenary, Graviton Fire Eater, flown Titan
  - Anubis, Dune Scorpion, Pharaoh
  - Immortal (though it doesn't matter)

No creature gains or loses the passive after upgrade.  Some creatures would probably need to have their HP rebalanced if this were implemented.  Armagio gets extra mileage from the buff.

[OldTrees]

New passive ability: Armored

Reduces damage from all spells and abilities by 1.  This includes chaos seed and snipe, but not poison.  This idea is a direct import from my card idea Shunt | Primal Shunt. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16885.0.html)

Here is an example ability that I wonder if it would be more appropriate as an Innate (Automatic Active) ability rather than a Perpetual (Passive) ability.
I can image a creature being built around this one ability and I do not think Perpetuals (passives) should be that central to a card.

[johannhowitzer]

Devourer's passive is pretty central.  Also, I ninja-edited. 

It could be argued that facing damage-based CC is situational, just like Wings, yet we also have the Airborne passive.