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Messages - Sal (106)

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Elements Articles / Re: A bit of game theory behind rush decks
« on: September 05, 2010, 02:39:51 am »
Was really nice to read and i have to agree with most statements.

I got a few questions that seem to fit to the topic:

Example Deck: Fire Rush
Is it worth it to play Explosion to get rid of eventual Shields or would you skip it for consistency/speed ?
On one hand you obviously want to get rid of a Phase Shield that prevents you to kill your opponent right now- on the other hand you might even be able to go for the kill earlier (before the Shield was found , and the opponent got enough Quanta to play it) if that Explosion in your hand would have been another Creature.

Example Deck: Life Rush
If i get the idea right you are building up pressure not only with your creatures but controversial also with your potential lifegain (making it harder for your opponent to "race" you).

Would it be viable to adept this "strategy" to other Rush builds ?
(Add Shard of Gratitude to a Rush build that would otherwise not have access to healing)

It pretty much comes down to the same thing: How much speed are you willing to sacrifice to get an edge in situations that possibly wouldn´t have happened without that sacrifice ?

Trio & Quartet / Poison Stall (Fun FG farmer)
« on: September 04, 2010, 08:38:49 pm »
Deck Helper comment: 
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now.  Use at your own risk.

I build the deck just for some diversion from my usual rainbow deck to grind fgs. It works surprisingly well against a few gods while its dodge list is too high to be an efficient farm deck.

Pretty much like Rol/Hope you beat certain Gods within a decent timeframe while you have to dodge the bad matchups.The current versions "dodge list" is higher and the card requirements  (couple Shards , 3 Arsenic) are higher aswell so just build this if you already got a decent FG farmer and want to have some fun.

Dodge Gods with:
-lots of permanent control
-excessive lifegain
-Quanta denial

Gods you should beat:
Obliterator (save your Sundials!)

This was build for FUN while i was trying out a few different strategies to farm False Gods.

This Deck is inferior to any other established FG grind deck.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 61t 61t 61t 61t 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 71a 71a 71a 7ba 7ba 7ba 7ba 7ba 7ba 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 808 808 808 808 80d 80d 8pk

Beside the shards this should work very well unupped.The Quantum Towers are just in there to fuel the shards and eventually help drawing cards via Sundial. The 4 Dimensional Shields you see in the list are not upped for any reason (and really don´t need to be upped), i just happen to own only 2 upped ones and thats it.


The strategy is pretty easy. Get SoG´s out to delay the time till you have to get down a Phase Shield and poison the AI whenever you can. Once you are down to about 40 hp lay down your first Phase Shield.Then use the Hourglass to dig for either another Phase Shield or Sundial to stay out of harms way.Meanwhile the Shards heal you up and the Poison gets the job done.

Sidenote:The Death Mark completly fuels the Death cards.Upping "Poison" might slightly slow you down since the cost go up from  :death to  :death :death with the upped version.

Feel free to modify the deck.

Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)
« on: September 04, 2010, 04:19:54 pm »
Can´t speak for a real player piloting the deck but i ran into that v2 version in the top50 quite a lot and have yet to lose the "mirror" against the AI. That doesn´t say much i know.

I´m not saying that it is faster, in fact i know that it is about a quarter turn slower on the average, but it is more consistent in the long run.

The damageoutput is constantly increasing while the v2 version is drawing "dead" cards.
V2 early turns (1-2) usually provide a higher damageoutput , but after that my version keeps increasing the pressure while the v2 is just "hanging in there" and looses its momentum.
As soon as you face some lifegain you will notice the difference.

Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)
« on: September 04, 2010, 03:52:51 pm »
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5f2 5f2 6rk 6rk 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds
This is my pet deck i use for AI3 / Top50 . Pretty much the standard Cremate Rush tweaked for consistancy.
It is relying to Cremate Phoenix instead of Ball Lightnings and thus is slightly less explosive during the initial 2 turns, but frequently outdamages its counterpart during the following turns by having less "bad" topdecks like Cremate/Ball Lightning.

It was designed to grind AI3 and thus it has no way to get rid of Phase Shields etc. but it is still my deck of choice when it comes down to top50-grinding.

Hopefully you aren´t sick of playing fire-rush variants yet  and give it a shot.

Issue Archive / Re: Multi-Discard [Unconfirmed]
« on: September 04, 2010, 02:40:44 pm »
Happened to me twice so far.
My mouse is broken and randomly doubleclicks whenever i click - i´ve destroyed my own pulverizer more than once that way  :'(

Fire / Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6)
« on: August 29, 2010, 04:37:04 am »
has this been tested against,11389.0.html ?
i have a feeling its not as good, but i could be wrong. also why use short swords instead of gavels? you have all the extra quanta from cremates, its unlikely that you'll use up any :fire
Short Sword - 1 Quanta - 3 damage
Long Sword - 1 Quanta - 6 damage
Gavel - 2 Quanta - 7 damage

I am using 2 Long Swords in the list because they are giving you the most bang for the buck. 1vs2 Quanta is pretty huge during the first 2 turns and will often mean the difference between casting an additional creature or not.

The 1 additional quanta needed for the Gavel only is worth it when i cast it on turn 1 or 2 - and this is the time i really need the quanta for the Phoenix to get everything rolling.

Also note i´m NOT playing 6 Cremate 4-6 RoL/Ball Lightning because they are just horrible topdecks.Other than your starting hand you don´t ever want to see these show up. And the odds of seeing that happen are pretty huge since 6Cremate + 4 Rol / Ball Lightning would fill 10 out of 30 cardslots with "bad" topdecks.
The first 2 Cremates are never dead only the next 2 you would draw after them. Thats 2 "bad" topdecks vs 8. I would say it is a major improvement and adds a lot more consistancy to the deck. It happens quite a lot that your creatures get Rewinded or frozen that would usually delay the killing turn by at least 1. With my list it doesn´t matter.
Even 3 Heals casted during the the initial 4 turns won´t buy enough time to survive long enough to stabilize because of the better topdeck rate.

The next major issue i had with additional Cremates / RoL / Ball Lightning was the current Mulligan system. Chances are you end up with just a Cremate or Ball Lightning but without pillars in your opening hand.I reduced the odds of that happening a lot and even play more pillars than the "Rush" list.Once again for consistancy.

I´m pretty happy with the 6 Phoenix/4 Cremate split. With the upgraded Pillars you are still able to pump out your 2 Golems on turn 1 when the hand is right and you can be sure that you won´t draw "dead" cards after that.

I ran into the "mirror" match between my version and the Ball Lightning Cremate.His start was faster but my draw was a lot better (he drew 3 Ball Lightnings while i drew "quality").Thats exactly what i meant.

Fire / Re: Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6)
« on: August 28, 2010, 02:59:54 pm »
Well there are "only" 14  :fire cards in this game. Gonna be pretty tough to re-invent the wheel with that  ;D

Just wanted to share the compilation of what works out best for me.

General Discussion / Re: Time To Win Study
« on: August 28, 2010, 09:28:15 am »
I´m curious if my Cremate list is that much slower. Can´t stop the time so if anyone got time spare to check it i´d appreciate it.

The list is very simmilar to "V2 -- fire tweaked to max speed" but (to me) it feels less inconsistant.The possibility of an ugly start hand is a lot lower and even if that occures it feels a lot smoother overall. Just my oppinion.
I also prefer to topdeck quality cards over Cremate / Ball Lightning. Like 90% of the time you don´t wanna see these cards from the top.Sure this prevents my list from killing on turn 3 every once in a while but on the other side it PREVENTS my list from killing later than turn7.
The ocasional turn 3 kill doesn´t outweight the very likly event of having to play 12 turns cause of a bad hand and even worse draw.All the won speed goes down the drain due to its inconsistant nature imo.

->Consistant Cremate rush (AI3 Grinder)<- (,11952.msg158275#msg158275)

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Fire / Consistant Cremate Rush (AI3 Grinder/ttw 5.6)
« on: August 28, 2010, 08:59:39 am »
by Sal
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5f2 5f2 6rk 6rk 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pm

I designed this to grind AI3.The main idea was to create a list that consistantly wins within a very low timeframe to increase the profit in cash/score gain.
Even with a bad start hand (no pillar) the deck is still fast enough to win turn 7 tops.
And this is the major opportunity over other versions of a Fire Rush.
The average game usually lasts only 5-6 turns (as you can see in the statistic).

Playstyle is very simple.Depending on your hand you cremate (usually a Phoenix) to gain a massive speed advantage and play very Quanta efficient Creatures before the AI could handle it (even if a shield hits the board its usually too late).
Healing / Destroying / Rewinding one or 2 of your Creatures usually only delays the killing turn by 1 if at all (unlike SG´s pure Dragon list that really suffers from rewind).

I´ve also tested a version with 0 quanta cost to increase the killspeed but found out pretty quickly that this leads to inconsistancy ( you don´t ever wanna draw into RoL etc or it will cost you at least 1 turn ... and that happens way to frequently).Sure you can possibly kill earlier, but on the average your game lasts longer cause you are a lot more vulnurable to bad draws -> less spins -> less cash within the same timeframe.

Just make sure you make the best use out of your quanta. The math is really a nobrainer.(Long Sword costs 1 quanta,Phoenix cost 2, Golem costs 5, Dragon costs 10). Just play whats giving you the highest damage output for the curret turn and don´t save up the quanta for the next turn.If that means you have to sacrifice a Golem to play a Golem and a Dragon then do it.You don´t want a long game and if you stick to this rule you don´t have to think at all.

Worst card in the Deck are the 2 Dragons, you never want to see it but there is no cost efficient alternative yet.The upgraded one sits in your hand forever - even with a cremate most of the time you won´t be able to cast them (and thus waste potential damage).The unupgraded one provides 12 damage for 10 Quanta while beeing as fragile as a phoenix - it dies to everything. Rewinding a Dragon is a serious speedbump especially when the deck is designed to "cheat" them into play via cremate (and most likly won´t be able to re-play it soon).

The alternative "pump" creature costs 2 mana for 0 (Unupgraded) or 3 mana for 2 damage. Both not efficient quanta use for this specific design.
Brimstone eater would provide 2 damage for 1 Quanta (or 0 Quanta, but you can´t spend the Quanta the turn it comes into play) and could be viable - but i feel 4 damage is the absolute minimum a card should do. If i could play 8 phoenix i would do it xD
 I also prefer the Long Sword over Gravel. 6 damage for 1 quanta is just pure efficiency. Gravel costs 100% more for a single damage more... and with this deck i´ve never seen it happen that the AI survives the turn with 1-3 life.

Testsample:80 Games

average winning turn :5.6
average HP left: 82.68
average cash won/game: 18.8 (without "bonus" from spinning)
average EMrate: 0,05 (5%)

Winning turn 4:12
Winning turn 5:28
Winning turn 6:20
Winning turn 7:20

Note: Haven´t lost within the Testrow although i´ve lost 2 games earlier with it against a Entropy Deck. Randomly happens like once a day when you grind for several hours.

Note: Feel free to trade the 2 Dragons with 2 Shards of Gratitude if you wanna trade speed for a slightly higher EM-rate.

Upped vs Unupped:
The unupped alternative wouldn´t work out. This Deck relies on the upgraded Phoenix during the early turns (for 2 quanta instead of 7) to be uses for Cremate. You´ll need at least the Phoenix upgraded for the deck to work at all. The upgraded pillars give you at least  a single turn faster speed.The Longsword upgrade is very noticable. The Golems and Cremate aren´t that important upgrades but still provide an edge.
For an unupped version i would suggest to cut both Dragons for additional Pillars and try to get your Phoenix upped asap.

Otherwise just stick to a cheap basic Shrieker rush for grinding (6 Graboid, 6Shrieker, 2 Longsword,16 Pillars // Time Mark).

Rainbow Decks / (v1.25 FG rainbow control) Keeper
« on: August 22, 2010, 10:51:45 am »
Deck Helper comment: 
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now.  Use at your own risk.

The Deck

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vn 52r 592 5ih 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 621 621 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u6 717 74b 74b 77f 7ba 7ba 7ba 7ba 7gp 7km 7km 7km 7n3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 80d 80d 80h 8ps

From what i´ve seen this is a pretty standard control Rainbow list with minor tweaks to fit my playstyle. It can be challenging at times to make the "right play" but the strategy is simple.
Survive the early game, dominate the lategame.
The design is very defensive (lots of Shield effects, damage prevention and lifegain mixed with the minimum of damage output).

Just play the cards when you have to. Most of the time your hand should be full or almost full.
Its not a very fast list nor does it have an amazing statistic against all gods (you should just skip the very tough ones, Dark Matter etc. to save some time) but when you win you´ll win with EM most of the time.
With all 3 Shards out thats 150 Electrum per win. With that you can afford to skip a few times :)

The original version was a 60 card deck with more copies of each card, but that one had consistancy issues.This 46 card version could be cut even further, but that would mean i would have to dodge more gods.

Note:I recently started to play this game (bout 1 week ago) and i´m quite happy with the result so far.Although quite a lot of the cards are upgraded the only essential upgrades are the otyughs, the hourglasses and the Druid.Eternity is the only rare you really need. Pulverizer usually just speeds things up a little. Most wins with the Pulverizer would have been possible without it aswell. Replace it with a Steal if you have to.
The needed shards can be farmed within a day or two by grinding top50 with the lvl3 grinder of your choice (Shrieker Rush worked very well for me).

Cardchoice details

Electrum Hourglass
Usually this card would give you an edge against your opponent by simply outdrawing him but its a different thing against gods. You just need it to get even with him.

This is your ONLY way to get rid of non-creature Permanents (mainly against Shields).The Deck works without it aswell, Pulverizer just speeds things up a bit.Only the Fire Shield can be dangerous to you. Your lategame DPS with the Mutations and Fireflies is almost open ended so you don´t have to worry about most other Shields (also true for Lifegain. You can easily deal 100 damage+ at the very late game).

Usually i keep it in my hand until i am down to 1 card in my library or i can imediatly protect it with Enchant Artifact.Playing it early is almost always a misplay unless you would die if you don´t play it.
It prevents you from running out of cards (simply put one of your own creatures ontop of your deck).
Make sure you don´t waste too much time mana when you are running low on cards - otherwise you might have the Eternity but can´t pay its activation cost turn after turn to prevent "decking" .

Enchant Artifact
This is for Eternity and Eternity ONLY. The only time you can "waste" it is when you know you play against a god who can´t get rid of Eternity or you are sure you will race your opponent fast enough.

My current list got 3 Quintessence for 4 Creatures so you should usually have one when you play your first creature. The Firefly Queen should be the lowest priority target for it usually (against some gods you need the Queen to generate Devour "fodder" to keep the Bonewall up. one quinted Otyugh is usually enough).

A highly situational card. Often times very useless - but other times a lifesaver.
Save this card for the highest attackpower beater the opponent got.Needless to say that you wanna keep it in your hand untill you really need it.

Phase Shield
This is often times your last chance to recover.Make sure you use it to its full potential (denying the opponent to damage you with creatures/weapons while gaining life and usually drawing extra cards via hourglass).The synergy with Shard of Gratitude is really good.
The Shards allow you to play the Shield later than you could usually afford and while you are safe behind your Shield you can regenerate up and most likly be able to survive at least a full turn longer.
In a close match it is worth it to NOT imediatly play the next Shield after the first one ran out because of the lifegain.
If everything is going smooth you should have one "spare" and can use it to get EM. Just make sure you play it the turn before you go for the kill and heal up to full hp with the Shards.

Other than the Phase Shield you might have to play one or two of them earlier than you wanted (poison creatures on the board or you have to desperatly get an answer).But don´t waste them when you don´t need them.Sometimes i even use them to get EM by preventing my creatures to kill to early and allowing the Shards to heal once more.

Shard of Divinity
You wanna keep these in you hand very long before you play them. Not only does it increase you max hp - it also heals you for these 20 hp - all that for just 3 quanta.
Great Synergy with the Shard of Gratitude when things are under control.Icing on the cake is that you will gain more Electrum.

Shard of Gratitude
This closes the gap between your 100 life and your opponents 200. Having a couple of them in play allows you to play your Shield spells later and thus potentially preventing MORE damage.4 seems to be the right number for this list, more would hurt your early game than it would help you at the lategame.

Permafrost Shield

Along with the Shards can and a single Otyugh this Shield is very often going to be enough to get the board under control (against some gods you don´t even have to play the Phase Shield once you got this baby in play).Recently added it and i´m just amazed what this card does to my midgame.

Bone Wall
I usually keep this in my hand untill i am positive i can keep it up indefinatly. This is the final lockpiece for the Combo.

Tends to be extreme. Either completly worthless or completly broken. This baby combined with a Bonewall and a Graveyard can do amazing things.Very handy against gods using Fractal or Creature generators.Most of the time it is a dead card that sits on your hand forever, but when you need it then it is just awesome.

The Main Combo

Elite Otyugh
Your main creature removal.Make sure you play your first one protected with Quintessence against removal heavy gods.Also this creature enables Skelletons from the graveyard to turn into Mutants via the Fallen Druid.

Elite Queen
I mainly use them to create "fodder" for the Otyugh to keep the mutant stream / Bone Wall going.
It should be a low priority target for Quintessence against most gods. You´ll figure it out pretty fast when you should quint it.

Providing you with a steady stream of Skelletons that your Druid mutates into real threats.
Also really handy for keeping a Bone Wall up.

Fallen Druid
This is your main damage source, and not because of its 3/3 body.
Upgrading tokens into fierce Creatures is his main job. Next to that it mutates opponents creatures with abilties you really have to handle/ or simply hit too hard.
The unupgraded version is better for defensive purposes (might kill creatures instanty , or very often turns em into a 5/5 ready to get devoured).While the upgraded one synergizes very well with Eternity. When you put a Mutant ontop of your deck with Eternity the original card will be on top (-> no mutation , just the normal card. So your mutant 0/2 dive Dragon will become a 10/5 again).


Play your Phase Shield / Sundials LATE !
Lets say the opponents potential damage grows by 8 each turn (3 growth creatures that are immortal -> so you can´t get rid of them) then by playing your shield as late as possible you prevent the most damage.
There is a thin line between late and too late though. :))
Keep a worst case scenario in mind (sudden Twin Universe / Dragon).

No Shield (prevented 0):

early Shield (prevented 72)

late Shield (prevented 168)

Use the Wiki (
The Gods already bend the rules, so use the Wiki ( to check the gods decks - there is no need to get surprised..

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blarg: Sal