Catapult | Trebuchet

[Mastermind79]

This is not bad, but I think it is underpowered. In its current form I can only see a stalling rush using Armagios to take hits and Chargers for damage, with this for a finisher, but the deck is only sped up, nothing is really changed...

Also, 1.26 has the most cards ever, it's awesome.

[Acsabi44]

Ask yourself thie following question:

You know nothing of the meatgame or the decks you'll face, you just wanna design a good all-around deck.
now.
Would you include Catapult into your deck over something else?

If your answer is yes, then this is a good card for you. If no, then this is UP.

I wouldn't. Maybe as an 1-of, if I ever face a heavy stall.


Another test: Build a deck with catapults, and test it against various decks. (AI3 will suffice). Every time you draw a catapult, ask yourself: "Would I be happier if this catapult I just drew were something else from my deck?" If the card is UP, then te answer will be 'YES' most of the time.

[The_Mormegil]

Aether pillars, 4 Fractals, Gravity Pillars, 6 Armagios, 3 catapults.

Fractal armagio anyone?

I actually tried that deck in many ways. It loses vs AI 3 most of the times.

Catapult was designed to be a threatening card. It isn't at this time.

Was it designed to be a threatening card? I thought it was designed to be threatening only to stall decks

Well, as I understood from Zanzarino's quotes around here, it was supposed to be a card that deals with gravity's "problem" of having very high hp creatures and not that many ways to use them. It was supposed to be a "high hp can be a threat" card. I think, at least.

[Acsabi44]

Having high HP creatures is not a problem in itself. Not having efficient ways to attack is. In its current form, I'm not sure wether catapult adresses this problem.

[Lluis83]

I think that besides of damage it would be nice to have a effect like destroying one random enemy permanent every time you sacrifice a creature ( random to don't make it OP and only usable once a turn, or also the creature have to have a minium hp to have the effect)

[xn0ize]

few gravity dragons and flying titan + chimera+ this ....
you get the point

[OldTrees]

few gravity dragons and flying titan + chimera+ this ....
you get the point

Chimera is inefficient with this card. The law of diminishing returns is painful with this card.
Maximum damage from a single creature with 499HP (the maximum HP) is 37 damage.

[Acsabi44]

you're better off with not flingig the chimera.

[xn0ize]

well.. hit the opponet few times... and use this and .. blah my head hurts

[jmizzle7]

Catapult was designed to be a threatening card. It isn't at this time.

Was it designed to be a threatening card? I thought it was designed to be threatening only to stall decks, while being at most average against other decks (when used offensively), while when it is used to trigger death effects can't be easily judged 'how threatening it is', but then changing the formula wouldn't change much. Making it's ability usable multiple times per turn might change that situation, but I'd say that catapults are quite slow weapons and don't seem like a card attacking more often than other cards.

Right now it is good for a number of purposes (as a support card). Not excellent, just good. Buffing the damage or allowing multiple use would increase the number of uses. The question is, is this card designed to be used more than other Gravity cards? Does every new card have to be used more often than the previous cards? It's a simple card that fills some niche. Unless Zanz intended otherwise.

As for the problem with Gravity lacking speed and damage... I'd say using catapult to fix this issue would be wrong. Catapults are not meant to be fast, and their damage is supposed to be high, but expensive, so creatures should definitely have better damage/cost ratio.
This problem should be fixed with other cards that are designed to be rush cards. Maybe acceleration will fill this purpose. Maybe not, and Gravity will have to wait for even more cards. IMHO we simply shouldn't try to bend the new cards to fix problems they are not meant to fix.

Of course, if Zanz's intention was different to my interpretation, than shall be it.

Not to mention that Time's rushing capabilities, even if I know a few tricks, are still worse than Gravity's in my opinion. At least if we compare unupped vs. unupped and Upped vs. Upped.

I understand your reasoning, but only to a point. How did we ever get on the subject of rushes, or how effective Catapult is at beating stall strategies? I'm talking about the pure mechanics of the card. Catapult is meant to deal unblockable damage at the cost of a creature. During the infant stages of this card's development, Zanz wanted to come up with a way for big, fat creatures to have relevance within the element. Flinging them at the opponent is a cool way to do it. During preliminary chat discussion, the damage-to-hp ratio was set at 1:1, up to 50 damage. Zanz wasn't satisfied that this was balanced enough, obviously, so he developed the formula that is currently used.

Now here we are. Catapult is officially in development, and everybody is screaming "underpowered!" It is simply because Catapult does not deal enough damage to warrant inclusion in a deck. The only use I have seen for it is as an also-ran in a Scarab deck, on the off-chance that you might face a stall situation. Even then, many dedicated stall decks will simply laugh at Catapult because it doesn't deal enough damage to combat the recursive healing that stalls carry. All of this coming from a seige weapon? You would think a seige weapon of war would be threatening. Slow and low on ammunition, but threatening. It isn't.

[smuglapse]

I think that besides of damage it would be nice to have a effect like destroying one random enemy permanent every time you sacrifice a creature ( random to don't make it OP and only usable once a turn, or also the creature have to have a minium hp to have the effect)

I like that idea.

[PhantomFox]

What if instead of dealing damage, it reduced maximum HP?  That is, make it anti-heal?