It's ALL about the rush deck...

[Higurashi]

*Silence* *Sundial* *Phase Shield* *Otyugh*

Silence and Sundial, yes. The other two are too slow. CC is much more effective. I did not ever intend to list all of them, simply the most reliable, which is plain and simple CC.

(Pretty much all decks that aim for 3ttw have little to no control, and if they can draw what they have+enough to win in 3 turns, the RNG hates you and you deserve to lose)

This is exactly part of the problem. You don't deserve to lose. At all.

They have Potential to win in 3 turns. Winning in 3 turns frequently is wrong, winning in 3 turns occasionally is acceptable. He just had bad luck or something ~ It's most likely very rare for 3 turns win to show up actually.


Like Terro said, if they win in 3 turns, RNG hates you. Go take a shower or something. When you come back it'll all be nice and even.

No one has even mentioned frequently, and the problem remains no matter how many showers you take. It's possible to win that fast.

Less assumptions, more reading, people.

[Ele124]

Possibly not the right place for this, but while its on topic...

Why not buff some of the cards mentioned above? Maybe not Otyugh, but making dimensional shield a quanta or 2 cheaper or making sundials and silence more attractive might help negate this problem.

[Dm]

*Silence* *Sundial* *Phase Shield* *Otyugh*

Silence and Sundial, yes. The other two are too slow. CC is much more effective. I did not ever intend to list all of them, simply the most reliable, which is plain and simple CC.

(Pretty much all decks that aim for 3ttw have little to no control, and if they can draw what they have+enough to win in 3 turns, the RNG hates you and you deserve to lose)

This is exactly part of the problem. You don't deserve to lose. At all.

They have Potential to win in 3 turns. Winning in 3 turns frequently is wrong, winning in 3 turns occasionally is acceptable. He just had bad luck or something ~ It's most likely very rare for 3 turns win to show up actually.


Like Terro said, if they win in 3 turns, RNG hates you. Go take a shower or something. When you come back it'll all be nice and even.

No one has even mentioned frequently, and the problem remains no matter how many showers you take. It's possible to win that fast.

Less assumptions, more reading, people.

Indeed, no one has ever mentioned frequent, that's why I said "Frequent is Wrong, Occasionally is acceptable". Might be just a RNG bad luck. Winning in 3 turns frequently would be a problem, but as no one has posted that out and there is no deck capable of that, winning in 3 turns occasionally might happen and it's just bad luck with the RNG.

Possibly not the right place for this, but while its on topic...

Why not buff some of the cards mentioned above? Maybe not Otyugh, but making dimensional shield a quanta or 2 cheaper or making sundials and silence more attractive might help negate this problem.

That would just make aether stall more powerful and make Dim Shield many much more powerful. No, I'd rather it'd stay this way. Like said, if you are using a mono-aether you could usually bring out a Dim Shield fast enough already, plus the silence stops it. The Otyugh is slow, but it turns into a tank if you let it in the field long enough. As to CC, We have Shockwave, Freeze (Costs 1 Water Quanta!), RoF, Ice Bolt, Lightning, Thunderstorm, Fire Bolt, and moving on to critters we have Maxwell Demon and Arctic Squid, and if weapons we have Owl's Eye and to a side note we have Lobotomizer that can pretty much destroy all Immo Rushes out there.

[Acsabi44]

it's like combo winter or Jund era in MtG...
Either you fall or take up the glove, get serious and fight back.

I fight back TTW 3-4 decks with TTW 3-4 decks and fast-setup stalls.

[Daytripper]

You're not wrong, if not overly negative. This is a large community. And if you don't post, people won't know you. Yes. Correct. Doesn't mean people don't care though.

AI has outrushed me too. In a few turns it'd have a row of attackers, me nothing. Rainbow is ridiculous for me lately. The thing has 40 cards out before I'm halfway through the deck. Abnormal.

I blame the upgraded towers, abundance of explosions and stealing. And quinting creatures that already have an ability. That is all fine, but some combos are indeed strong. If you can virtually get no cards out, it ruins the game. I agree this should not happen too often, but 3 turns, it is rare. I'll grant you rushes are fast. My earth rush can beat AI5 pretty often, which has 200 HP.

Try to keep the balance is all.

[Ryan666]

I don't post here very often because I'm mostly about playing, not discussing. But something has struck me, and I need to post about it.

I've been a member of this game - and playing regularly - since April '09.  I've used all different kinds of decks.  Needless to say, I like the game, I care about it, and I don't want to see it ruined.  Some of you will think I'm just sour and posting rage, but I don't waste that kind of time.  Here's the thing:

Elements is BROKEN.

I just lost a match in 3 turns.  Not once, but twice in the last three T50 games I played - to two different rush-style decks. Admittedly, my deck didn't perform as it should during these games.  But it's a stall deck which, until recently, had been performing at about 80% vs. T50 with about 1/2 my wins with EM.  It's a good, fully upgraded deck I worked hard at designing to be competitive against any opponent.

My point is, you should not be able to win a match in 3 turns at all.  No matter how good your draw or how poor your opponent's.  No matter the deck styles or the difference in upgraded cards.   3 Turns!  What is the counter to this, except to design a deck that can somehow win in 2 turns?  Do you think that's possible -  A deck that can win in 2 turns? 

I see this game becoming MTG:Online.  I never played MTG - Mainly because I heard people talking about how outrageous combos made the game non-competitive for anyone who didn't have a deck that could win in 3 turns.  Frankly, I don't want to play any card game that can be won in 3 turns.

I know you, the reader of this post, don't care if I live or die, (and you or someone else will probably reply as such).  But consider, if you care about this game at all, that for every person who posts a complaint here, there are probably 100 who, instead, will just quit and never come back.

Thanks for your time.

That last paragraph was a bit dramatic but every deck has a counter to it, just because your deck didn't win after your huge long streak or whatever doesn't mean that elements is broken. It just means that they played a counter to your deck. You deck isn't always going to win and it won't be everyone every time.

[Raptor6789]

that's why there is summoning sickness in mtg. creatures cant attack when they are first played.

but anyways...
this is an evolving game. It is nowhere near perfect. As the community thinks of new imbalances, the developer will (hopefully) think of ways to fix these imbalances.

just take a look at starcraft, which still had patches 10 years after its release.

[Ryan666]

that's why there is summoning sickness in mtg. creatures cant attack when they are first played.

but anyways...
this is an evolving game. It is nowhere near perfect. As the community thinks of new imbalances, the developer will (hopefully) think of ways to fix these imbalances.

just take a look at starcraft, which still had patches 10 years after its release.

Well this game isn't mtg, that's why it doesn't have the same rules. If you like mtg so much, go play it. In my opinion this game is really fun and i'm not going to worry about whether or not my opponent got lucky and won in three turns.

[Dm]

that's why there is summoning sickness in mtg. creatures cant attack when they are first played.

but anyways...
this is an evolving game. It is nowhere near perfect. As the community thinks of new imbalances, the developer will (hopefully) think of ways to fix these imbalances.

just take a look at starcraft, which still had patches 10 years after its release.

We have summoning sickness for ability, and that's enough. Immo/Rushes, the fastest decks, can't grow in the first turn, and therefore you can just plague it/shockwave it/ whatever it/ to death.

[Higurashi]

Winning in 3 turns frequently would be a problem, but as no one has posted that out and there is no deck capable of that, winning in 3 turns occasionally might happen and it's just bad luck with the RNG.

No, it's a feat possible thanks to Cremation and/or Supernova. That's what he finds a problem, and I agree. Those two cards need a serious nerf either way, even discounting this scenario. You not agreeing they need it is a different thing, but it's not all RNG and can be fixed.

[Ekki]

Well, you have a point...

I agree that this isn't a perfect game, but IMO it's INCREDIBLY well made.

3 turn wins should happen sometimes, they are a consequence of luck in card games. If you somehow make 3 turn wins impossible, and 4 turn wins very rare, you'll inevitably nerf rushes OR slow down the game, maybe too much.
I don't say winning in 3 turns is OK, but it's too improbable, and generally any good CC can counter it, so maybe it's not that bad.

You may have had a bad draw (it's common, specially for ImmoNovaRushes and PSNbows) and your opponent, a REALLY good one (or you might have miscounted the turns*).

There is some stuff that can't be changed... You can't kill rushes/stalls/denials/other deck archetypes, and they are pretty balanced right now. It's true that Immolation and Supernova are a bit OP, but it's just a bit, since they can still lose to other stuff (specially Black Holes).

*I know you can see them in the losing screen, but maybe you haven't done that and exagerated a bit, or maybe it was YOUR 3th turn, and the opponent was in its 4th, when he won and didn't let you reach your 4th.

[BluePriest]

Elements shouldnt be Rock Paper Scissors. This effect is bad for the community. You shouldnt have to design a srategy specifically for a certain deck. Im using a speedbow I made right now, and despite all the CC that is thrown at me, mass or single, i still win. Why is that? It shouldnt happen. You may say, "Theres decks that will win against it" but In all reality, only 1 type of deck really stands a chance to win the majority of the time. A black hole deck. And thats if I dont get a good hand. If I do get a good hand, I can get out almost 50 damage in 1 turn. Before you can almost do anything. And then you need mass CC so that you dont die the next turn. Oh wait, a voodoo doll deck with the right hand MAY do good as well.

Silence will hardly effect my deck. If you are lucky enough to chain them them good job. Hope the creatures i didnt already put out on the field dont kill you. Rushes are being so optimized that its hard to get enough stall to stop them long enough to pull off a win.