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Offline DemagogTopic starter

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Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44102#msg44102
« on: March 26, 2010, 11:25:34 pm »
I've been wondering, when grinding, what produces electrum quicker, speed or masteries? Most people will answer speed without a thought, but maybe we actually should think about it. So I'm just going to throw a little math around to compare. Granted, these numbers may not actually be applicable to any current decks, but unless someone has the stats needed to make the comparison, we'll have to stay hypothetical.

This comparison is of a speed deck and a mastery deck against AI3.

The speed deck's stats:
Game length: 1 minute
Games per hour: 60
Average profit: 5 (based on what I've experienced using the shrieker rush deck)
Games per slot win: 10 (I'm not sure what the actual stats for this are, but I actually think this number may be "high," in that it actually takes more games on average than 10 to win a card... that's just from what I've read on the forums... the fewer games it takes though, the better this deck does in comparison)

The mastery deck's stats:
Game length: 3 minutes (I'll also include an example at 4 minutes, just in case anyone says 3 is too fast)
Games per hour: 20
Average profit: 30 (it is specifically designed to get an EM every game, but I'll do another comparison at 25 for those who say 40 every game is impossible (that's about an 80% mastery rate with a reward of 17 or 18 in the other 20%)
Games per slot win: 10

So let's say they play for an hour. So let's multiply the games per hour by the average reward, then add in how many cards won (we'll go with an average of 30 electrum refunded in the bazaar).

The speed deck:
60*5=300      300+(6*30)=480
So 480 electrum in an hour.

The mastery deck:
20*30=600     600+(2*30)=660
660 electrum per hour

So you're making 1/3 to 1/4 less per hour using a speed deck (it's actually 3/11 according to the numbers, but I'm allowing for a little wiggle room). The actually percent is about 72% of what this example makes.

The mastery deck at 25 profit per game:
20*25=500      500+(2*30)=560
Still more... 1/7 less, or about 86% of what this example makes.

The mastery deck at 4 minutes:
15*30=450     450+(2*30)=510
Still more than the speed deck, but the difference is negligible (1/17 less per hour this time... it changes to 1/9 at two hours though... just under 89% of what this example makes... that's only because at one hour I gave it 2 cards in 15 games, but at 2 hours it goes back to 1 card every 10 games, so that's 3 cards won).

The mastery deck at 4 minutes and 25 profit per game:
15*25=375      375+(2*30)=435
Finally less than the speed deck. This version makes 3/32 less, or about 90% of what the speed deck makes. It makes only 30 less per two hours though.

So, which is better? If you're optimistic and take the first example, the mastery deck is the way to go. If you use the second or third example of the mastery deck, you'll only do slightly better with it... it might add up over time, or it might not because the numbers aren't exactly concrete in real world application. If you use the last example, the speed deck is better, but the amount is probably still negligible.

Like I said though, this is all hypothetical. If people post the stats needed along with their deck, we could probably come up with something a little more accurate.

Offline pikachufan2164

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44116#msg44116
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 11:50:12 pm »
Don't forget that matching the first two reels on the slots now grants 5 electrum instead of just 1 -- that should swing the statistics a bit more in the favour of a speed deck, as it's able to get more spins over a set amount of time.
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Offline tyranim

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44117#msg44117
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 11:50:57 pm »
i have a deck that has both of those, just look it up under dark mono decks, its called vampire dragons (dont have time to get link)
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Offline Kamietsu

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44130#msg44130
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 12:14:31 am »
I play for masteries. Sure, owning Half-bloods quickly racks up money, but I would rather take my time and get a bigger payout, over time, gaining a higher profit I believe.

The time it takes to do 3 halfbloods with a speed deck, I can gain mastery with a mastery deck.
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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44155#msg44155
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 01:30:54 am »
Quote
The speed deck's stats:
Game length: 1 minute
Games per hour: 60
Average profit: 5 (based on what I've experienced using the shrieker rush deck)
FYI when you win a game, you get back the initial wager in addition to the reward for winning.

Delreich

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44211#msg44211
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 04:40:39 am »
I've not tried any mastery decks, but I know both life and earth rushes are capable of well over 500 electrum per hour, even over 1000 electrum if you sell cards. That's unupped, with no rares.
If someone feels like having a go at the AI3 Farming Challenge (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1874.0.html) with a mastery deck, please do. It'd be interesting to see how well it performs.

Oh, and those runs I did was when you only got 1 extra electrum per two-of-three slot matching. Assuming there's on average one such match per win, my gains would go up 150 or more electrum per hour.

PuppyChow

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44214#msg44214
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 05:10:06 am »
I've been meaning to do that AI3 challenge with mono life, 12x life pillar, 6x horned toad, 6x adrenaline, and 6x heal. Theoretically it's still pretty fast and gets mastery almost every time.

Offline jmizzle7

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44224#msg44224
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2010, 05:37:16 am »
12x pillar, 6x frog, 6x adrenaline, split cockatrice/heal (to your liking)

This deck is lightning fast and gets mastery quite often. It's pretty much the mono-Life version of what my old Vampire deck was all about: fast wins with possibility of mastery.

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44491#msg44491
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2010, 07:34:17 pm »
I looked at this thread and never considered Ai3 grind over T50, but I put together my upped mono-life (10 towers, 6 frogs, 4 cockatrices, 4 adrenalines, 6 heals) and works out pretty well.  Probably moreso than grinding T50 (although the coin won might not compare because of all the farms in T50), but the score gained seems to be much better than what I was getting from T50 grind of 1k/hr.

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44519#msg44519
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2010, 09:00:39 pm »
I reset my account a couple times, using various decks. Pure darkness was by far the quickest to finish the quests (three hours), since this deck is both reasonably fast and more importantly usually achieves mastery. Also, you can win 19/20 against lvl3 with this deck. Using the fastest deck per game possible (fire rush deck), you only win 9/10, and with many games you earn very little, so it took more than six hours to finish all quests. Not sure what my conclusions were. Probably that pure darkness is overpowered at lower levels (though it doesn't work against false gods so it's fine). Also, if you want to grind as fast as possible make a mono darkness deck. It's both fast and achieves mastery, so you have the best of both worlds.

Offline DemagogTopic starter

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44544#msg44544
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 11:26:37 pm »
Quote
The speed deck's stats:
Game length: 1 minute
Games per hour: 60
Average profit: 5 (based on what I've experienced using the shrieker rush deck)
FYI when you win a game, you get back the initial wager in addition to the reward for winning.
Which is why I said "average profit" and not "average reward." If it were the latter, the amount would be 15.

Offline xdude

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Re: Grinding: Speed or Masteries? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4462.msg44545#msg44545
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2010, 11:40:43 pm »
I think what he meant is that if you win you don't lose the money you would've first lost so that makes speed decks better.
Overall, speed decks are the way to go, since more cards is better than more EM's, especially with the new +5 instead of the old +1.
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