elemental grudges

[killybob]

i think that some elements should be more effective directly against another one. for example we have fire and water, two opposing elements that, if you think about it, should, say, do more damage against each other (e.g. fire creatures do bonus damage against those with the water mark). i think its a little silly having lots of contradicting elements that are equal with and against opposite creatures and elements that should complement them.

[Raptor6789]

this should go in suggestions and feedback, right?

but ya, i think the game should somehow implement mechanics of opposing elements.

[ZephyrPhantom]

That would be very hard to code but it could be shown through a new series of cards.

[RootRanger]

There is too great a risk it could disrupt the metagame, making certain cards/strategies UP. I think the uses of this idea do not overrule the balancing problems.

[Bloodshadow]

Holy Light... *twitches*

[OldTrees]

I think that while all the elements have opposites I don't think of Fire's strategy as being an antimatter'ed version of Water.

The only card that supports a direct opposition (instead of the roundabout version) is Holy Light, a card despised by the followers of Darkness.

I think we should not need any (more) "Element hate" cards. As each element gains cards the differences between opposites will become more pronounced and will suffice for representing elemental opposition.

[Daytripper]

You are right, elemental grudges are exactly what you would expect. But the game isn't made like that. I would also expect the creatures to fight. Instead they directly attack the opponent's HP. Like a rugby player scoring a point while a player of the other team is simply standing in front of him. It doesn't make much sense, but that is the game.

I have not seen a single bit of argumentation that suggests this leads to a meta game problem. There are 12 elements. Every element would get a small bonus against just 1 other element. So, in some games you'd win more often, while otherwise you'd lose more. Makes no netto difference. Also, the division needs to be asymmetrical. A    and  grudge is nonsensical, as the results would nullify each other.

In the end, I think this is very much possible, but I wonder if it makes any difference overall.

[ZephyrPhantom]

You are right, elemental grudges are exactly what you would expect. But the game isn't made like that. I would also expect the creatures to fight. Instead they directly attack the opponent's HP. Like a rugby player scoring a point while a player of the other team is simply standing in front of him. It doesn't make much sense, but that is the game.

I have not seen a single bit of argumentation that suggests this leads to a meta game problem. There are 12 elements. Every element would get a small bonus against just 1 other element. So, in some games you'd win more often, while otherwise you'd lose more. Makes no netto difference. Also, the division needs to be asymmetrical. A    and  grudge is nonsensical, as the results would nullify each other.

In the end, I think this is very much possible, but I wonder if it makes any difference overall.

It makes no difference, but it would give the coders a headache. Would you imagine the problems coding a balanced ability for each element?  Like I said, this is best reflected through the cards rather than the mark, and as Oldtrees stated, we have enough of that already. This isn't pokemon, you know.

[Daytripper]

The fact that the impact would be so small would be a reason not to bother with it. It is not hard to code. You simply give every element a +2 attack VS 1 other element, but the pairing must be asymmetrical.

I don't know why that has to do with pokemon, as I am not familiar with it.

[OldTrees]

May I suggest a different more subtle and complex form of opposition?

What is Fire good at?
Damage
What does this skill lean towards?
Rush Decks
What counters Rush Decks?
Stall Decks?
What is Ice Shield good at?
Stalling
Where is Ice Shield?
Water
Does Water have a lot of diverse stalling cards?
Yes
What counters Stall Decks?
Rush Decks
What does Fire lean to again
Rush Decks, oh!

[killybob]

haha i suppose your right  . it was just a thought. even though it would make no gaming differences although it may have been slightly more exciting for players.

[Raptor6789]

I think oldtrees is talking about the mechanics of the elements themselves opposing each other. i would agree with him, but this doesnt occur with each pair of elements. for example, entropy and gravity both have cards that deny quanta (discord, black hole). they both have ways to deal finishing blows (catapult, mutation). they can bypass shields (butterfly effect, momentum).