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Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056474#msg1056474
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 06:54:47 pm »
 :entropy
Maxwell's demon: don't think it needs the +1 hp, but I don't see it affecting the game much either way.  I'd argue against it simply because maxwell's demon is already seeing a decent amount of play
Butterfly effect: I'm in favour of this, as it is a card that barely sees the light of day.
Nova/Supernova: As long as it's loss of life or something that SoSa won't reverse, I think this could be reasonable, but I'd like to see how current novabows/speedbows do with it in beta first.  There will be a lot of complaining about it... :p

 :death
Skeleton: Do you mean when played, or each turn, or when rewound?
Poison: I don't like this idea at all.
Shard of Sacrifice: I'd like to see this in beta to try it out too, but it might work.  Having the card cost 2 :death has helped already, since you can use quanta denial to help lock it out from being chained, and you can't just put it in any deck you want anymore

 :gravity
Mercenary: It's still not a card anybody ever uses, so it doesn't need a nerf.  I thought it would after it was buffed before, but other than in oracle decks where that's the card, I never see it
Shard of Focus: It already does... it has summoning sickness like every other creature.  I'm assuming you meant one additional turn of that.  Making this card gravity only has helped curtail its ubiquitous use, and I haven't seen nearly so much of it now, but it's still used.  I'd cautiously say that it's alright now, albeit still very strong.

 :earth
Graboid: 100% agree; I've pushed for that exact change several times in the past
Plate Armour: That's a neat idea.  A buff I'd proposed in the past is to simply have plate armour also give +1 attack, but your idea is a little more unique.

 :life
Frog: Never even considered that before... it might hopefully make people stfu about blue crawler... :p
Cockatrice: I'm seeing zero thematic sense behind this one.  With your proposed frog nerf, I don't think you also need to buff cockatrice.  It's a card that people still use quite frequently.  I would like to see this idea on a card, but on a new card, not on an old revamped one.

 :fire
Bravery: 3 // 2 might be alright; I think 4 might be overkill.
Ash: I could get on board with this.  0/5 was a help, but even 5hp still survives quite a bit.  Mostly that just put it in range of lightning bolts and a little more in range of bolt spells.
Fire bolt: Not sure how I feel about this one.  It's not technically a nerf, as in some ranges it will actually be better than the old firebolt.  (ex: 8-9 quanta will deal 4 damage)  It would keep it a little closer in line with the other bolt spells (ice bolt, drain life) though, since 2 damage per 8 quanta is closer to those cards than 3 damage per 10 quanta is.  (+50% damage is quite a lot, whereas the 8 quanta thing works out to an average of +20% damage over those two spells)
Fire spirit: You could go with that, but I'm not sure it needs it (or should get it) as fire creatures are thematically supposed to have fairly low hp
Immolation: See nova comments

 :water
Nymph's tears: I'd rather see water nymph get -1 attack or something instead
Crawlers: Abyss crawler is just fine, and with your proposed frog nerf, I think people will whine less about the blue crawler
Squid: No

 :light
Sanctuary: No; it needs to stay more distinct from shard of gratitude than your suggestion, and its cost and differing healing value does that now
Pegasus: Sure; it won't affect much, and it is an underused card in unupped form

 :time
Deja Vu: This one makes me very nervous because of the abuse when this was the case before, and the SoR change does nothing to change the OPness with deja vu, since you couldn't chain SoRs on a deja vu anyway.

 :darkness
Parasite: I don't think it needs this.  Insects with >1 hp? :p  Seems odd, and the card still sees use for CC anyway, and that's the main use for it.

 :aether
Dimshield: Agree.  Better, though, is the suggestion I had awhile back to change it from invincibility to a 5 or 6 damage shield for 3 turns.
Lightning: Probably a good idea; lightning is very strong
Mindgate: Don't think it needs this, but I could probably get on board as it is my favourite card!




Offline Cheesy111

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056480#msg1056480
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2013, 07:09:16 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
This isn't as much as a big nerf as it appears. Speed Rainbows are still exceptionally good, even after the singularity nerf.
Grabbows are good, I agree.  I don't think they're so good that they need to be nerfed in the current metagame, unless we're rebalancing around a far lower standard in which case many more cards need to be nerfed.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Rainbows are too much everywhere, and can contain too much variety to actually be precisely countered.
Why do you need to easily be able to precisely counter all rainbows..? I don't think you'd say the same sentiment applied towards monos or duos.
Also, popularity is not an argument for balance.


Offline jawdirk

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056502#msg1056502
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2013, 08:47:19 pm »
:entropy
Butterfly Effect now costs 1 quanta less to cast (4 unupped, 3 upped). Good
Nova/Supernova now cost 6 HPs to cast Good

:death
(Card) Poison is now treated as spell damage. This is an exciting change. I like it.
Shard of Sacrifice inverts only for 1 turn, HP cost halved. Probably good, but this is a huge nerf.

:gravity
SoFo enters play delayed for 1 turn. Good

:earth
Graboid now costs 2 :time quanta to evolve. Good
Plate Armor also makes the creature resist the first targetting. (This includes user's targetting). I really like this.

:life
Horned Frog stats lowered (3|2 unupped, 5|2 upped) Good
Upon play, Cockatrice restores 4 HPs to its owner.Seems uncreative. I think we could do better. Never-the-less, it would improve the game.

:fire
Ash stats lowered to 0|3 Good
Fire Bolt now deals 2 damage every 8 quanta. Good
Fire Spirit stats raised to 0|3, 2|4. Good
Immolation/Cremation now costs 6 hps to cast. Good

:water
Nymph's Tears cost increased by 1 (both upped and unupped (8|7)) Is Nymph's Tears really a problem?
Arctic Squid is not a rare anymore. Good

:light
Sanctuary now costs 1 quanta less and offers 1 healing less (both upped and unupped). I think this is the wrong berf. The quanta reduction is good, but I would rather see it be resistant to PC in some way.
Unupped Pegasus stats buffed to 3|3. Good

:aether
Lightning now costs 1 quantum more (both upped and unupped). No need, I think. CC is weak in general.
Dimensional Shield now costs 1 quantum more (both upped and unupped). This is not enough of a nerf. Reduce it to 2 turns, or reduce the invulnerability to 5-6 damage as dragonsdemesne suggested.
Mind Gate now costs 1 quantum less (both upped and unupped). Good!

Offline Marsu

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056508#msg1056508
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 08:57:03 pm »
CC is weak in general

What.

On topic: Stop hating the frog, it's balanced. Good (stats/quantum cost) ratio is totally negated by bad (stats/card slot cost) ratio.

Offline Onizuka

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056514#msg1056514
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 09:16:57 pm »
Why only the change for squid and not the other non weapon/shard rares?

I dislike HP things in general. Both losing and gaining (neither cockatrice/crawler really make sense, and i dislike the ruslter because of miracle).
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Offline epocnys

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056517#msg1056517
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 09:23:24 pm »
Out of curiosity how do these balancing ideas that are being proposed come into being?  I'll admit I haven't watched the forum conversations for too long, but I don't recall seeing topics (nerf/buff) or discussion about these.  Some seem like minor tweaks, while others (I'm looking at you rustler) seem like a drastic change. 

Interesting stuff.  Will be interesting to read more about this as it is tested and vetted in the community.

Offline ddevans96

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056521#msg1056521
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 09:32:45 pm »
Why only the change for squid and not the other non weapon/shard rares?

Because Squid used to not be a rare, and there's no reason for it to be rare.
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Offline Fireleaf

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056557#msg1056557
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 11:36:52 pm »
Two main issues: The recent SN nerf seems to have handled the balance issues with Nova and SN; that 6 HP penalty is quite significant. Secondly: nerf Lightning? Seriously? That would make it quite UP when compared to Shpckwave, would it not?
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Offline jawdirk

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056594#msg1056594
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 01:28:52 am »
Secondly: nerf Lightning? Seriously? That would make it quite UP when compared to Shpckwave, would it not?

I agree. I think they are both fairly weak already. There are a huge number of important creatures that are strong against lightning: immaterial creatures, many with 6+ hp, phoenix, and any creature that costs less than lightning to play. Even pest is strong against lightning since it pays for itself with quanta drain. However, I could see increasing lightning's cost to  :aether :aether and making it do 6 damage. Then it would be as effective as upped rage potion but without the flexibility to use it offensively.

Offline Onizuka

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056599#msg1056599
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 01:37:27 am »
Two main issues: The recent SN nerf seems to have handled the balance issues with Nova and SN; that 6 HP penalty is quite significant. Secondly: nerf Lightning? Seriously? That would make it quite UP when compared to Shpckwave, would it not?

Things that 1 lightning kills over 1 shockwave:
Upgraded Psion
Bone Dragon/Ivory Dragon
Aether Nymph
Black Dragon
Purple Dragon
Abomination
Upgraded Maxwell's Demon
Sapphire/Elite Charger
Graviton Mercenary
Graviton Fire Eater
Graviton Salvager (un and up)
Elite Otyugh
Elite Cockatrice
Arctic Dragon
Puffer Fish
Crusader (Upgraded)
Blue Nymph
Devonian Dragon
Pharaoh (un and up)
Golden Nymph (Upgraded)
Black Nymph
Dark Nymph




Things that 2 lightnings kill over 2 shockwaves:
Death Nymph
Stone Dragon
Earth Nymph
Jade Dragon
Light Nymph (Un and Up)

Things that 3 lightnings kill over 3 shockwaves:
Colossal Dragon
Steam Machine (Upgraded)

etc (and this is not including weapons or growing creatures).

Lightning should have been 3 quanta or even 4 (based off rage pot having a possible upside/not needing two to target stuff since anything RP doesn't kill it buffs).
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Offline Pella

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056603#msg1056603
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 01:47:37 am »
This:
Pharaoh (un and up)

belongs here:
Things that 2 lightnings kill over 2 shockwaves:
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Offline aefields

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Re: Proposed Balance Changes for an eventual 1.33 Patch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48187.msg1056641#msg1056641
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2013, 05:32:59 am »
Poison is innately different than a spell. You might eat it or get injected by it or breathe it...  It shouldn't be reflectable by a shield that reflects spells.

 

anything
blarg: