New idea for elements gameplay

[RootRanger]

So I lose all of my score and my marks become completely devalued?
This thread is a joke, right?

[llehsnatas]

one idea was to reset score which i don't see why its such a big deal. another idea  that i thought was added in a later post was to keep ur current score but u would still have to earn the required score for prestige lvls.

   this is an idea in the making so i don't understand why u would be so simple minded as to insult the idea so easily when obviously u have not read through the entire thread. maybe its my fault for not having typed it in a format easier for u "sensitive" types to understand. i am aware that im not the best writer out there but i am trying to do better at it for the sake of the ones who have such a hard time reading what i write.

i don't understand what u mean by devaluing ur marks. once again this is probably my fault but let me make it clear to u that all normal cards would still be used in the normal way they are right now, only the prestige cards(including prestige marks) would be removed during a normal match or another idea was to allow the prestige cards (including marks) in any match ( except pvpI of course) but with a penalty to the score the prestige player would gain from such a match.

  i dnt see why pple want to say this is such a bad idea with out giving a real reason why they think its such a bad idea. IMHO i think its unfair to have the same ole long term full time players playing all the weaker players, its bad enough that any newb can just copy and paste a code from one of these threads and then farm whats suppose to be the most difficult opponents in the game and yes i understand that players have to have the cards first before using the code but there are starter decks that allow u to make minimal changes and still farm the FGs.
     Wouldn't it be nice to know that when u go into a PPvPPI/PPvPPII (PrestigePlayer vs Prestige Player 1 and 2)  match that u are going against players of similar talent who can give u and ur deck the most challenge? or would u rather just take advantage of the players that have not played near as much/long as u have? 
     

[RootRanger]

one idea was to reset score which i don't see why its such a big deal. another idea  that i thought was added in a later post was to keep ur current score but u would still have to earn the required score for prestige lvls.

People have spent a lot of time trying to raise their score to participate in Trials, CL, and higher leagues in Arena. Score isn't something you can reset on a whim. The latter idea is much better.

this is an idea in the making so i don't understand why u would be so simple minded as to insult the idea so easily when obviously u have not read through the entire thread

Actually, I managed to read the whole thread. The grammar and spelling really slowed me down, but I got to the end after a couple hours of work.
Have you read what you wrote?

i don't understand what u mean by devaluing ur marks.

also every 2 prestige lvls would grant a chance to get a mark of you're choosing

When a lot more marks are in circulation, the value of each mark falls significantly, which is extremely unfair with people that used skill to obtain their marks.

i dnt see why pple want to say this is such a bad idea with out giving a real reason why they think its such a bad idea.

I gave real reasons.

IMHO i think its unfair to have the same ole long term full time players playing all the weaker players, its bad enough that any newb can just copy and paste a code from one of these threads and then farm whats suppose to be the most difficult opponents in the game and yes i understand that players have to have the cards first before using the code but there are starter decks that allow u to make minimal changes and still farm the FGs.

Beating FGs isn't the ultimate goal of the game. FGs are just a way to make it easier to have enough electrum for what really matters: PvP. And it's best to make it easy to farm FGs so it is easy for anyone to play PvP.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that when u go into a PPvPPI/PPvPPII (PrestigePlayer vs Prestige Player 1 and 2)  match that u are going against players of similar talent who can give u and ur deck the most challenge? or would u rather just take advantage of the players that have not played near as much/long as u have? 

Your prestige level ideas are not based on skill; they are based on score.
In theory it would be nice to play people of your skill, but you don't propose a good method of this.

[silux]

I don't want any kind of premium, nobilty, or prestige.
The only differences between new players and veterans is electrum and deckbuilding skills.
Both of them need to be achieved with mind work  and determination.

Score does matter in the arena and 80k score is the result of a very long time.
However I don't see the need of giving them bonus benefits,  because they have already their  advantages.

I agree that would be cool to play as a fake god against other fake gods, but this has already been suggested.

About writing
Writing  in an appealing and ordered way is an high kind of education.
If you write with adequate spacing, punctuation and good use of abbreviations, you will have several advantages!
-people will read your posts faster
-they will  understand better what you want to say
-they will be more polite when writing back
-they will think at you as a good person, and will give you Reputation more likely
So, if you want these advantages, start to write better.
If you want good examples of writing, look in the wiki, or watch posts of people which has high reputation.

[llehsnatas]

Actually, I managed to read the whole thread. The grammar and spelling really slowed me down, but I got to the end after a couple hours of work.
Have you read what you wrote?

really it took u that long just because i didn't use what some of u consider a smarter, more educated format? i do apologize for the barbaric writing method used but as a said b4 it was a spur of the moment idea and late at night.


  When a lot more marks are in circulation, the value of each mark falls significantly, which is extremely unfair with people that used skill to obtain their marks.

yeah i have been rewriting the entire idea and even though that first minimalist post stated that u would have a CHANCE to get a mark perhaps i should have said, a small chance to win a mark. i have since rethought this part of the idea and based on other forums (not here) pple like the idea of a chance to win a mark if they have to work hard to get that chance. so i decided that a small chance (>25%) to win a mark every 5 prestige lvls would be more efficient.


Beating FGs isn't the ultimate goal of the game. FGs are just a way to make it easier to have enough electrum for what really matters: PvP. And it's best to make it easy to farm FGs so it is easy for anyone to play PvP. 


To be honest im not sure at all what the ultimate goal of this game is, i mean surely its not to just gain enough electrum as fast as possible just to go play pvp is it ? I really don't understand why you would want to make a game so easy for anyone to play pvp. I think if there was a system to separate the players who play for fun from those who play for score then it would level the playing field and not just be the same ole boring stuff over and over. 




Your prestige level ideas are not based on skill; they are based on score.
In theory it would be nice to play people of your skill, but you don't propose a good method of this.     



So you admit that score is not related to skill at all, then why make such a fuss over such a simple thing as score?
i know  i know score shows how good u are ....... lol.
   This is why while rewriting the idea i came up with a system that would better fit the idea. Although not completely finished the idea is something like having 2 scores. score 1 would be your original score and would increase with your regular non prestige matches just like it does today. Score2 how ever would only increase slightly during regular matches until your first prestige lvl after which the only way to increase your prestige score  therefore increasing your prestige rank would be to play other prestige players. Prestige leveling  would be voluntary and prestige cards and marks would not be allowed in any regular matches except duels.
 All prestige cards would be marked in some way rather it be a simple symbol on it or a coated surface/border of bronze, silver, gold, or even like a multicolored foil type coating. So other then a few rares a chance to win a mark or 2 and some different looking cards the only reason to prestige would be to further challenge yourself against opponents that are of the same or about the same skill lvl as yourself.
 
To me this would be a good way to have some sort of goal in PvPing other then score it will show that you are able to go up against and defeat higher skilled players. As for all your complaining RootRanger how about you make some suggestions to ways of improving this idea or even suggest your own idea instead of just shooting down something that isn't to your liking. I understand that a lot of you are in a place of "power" and would like to keep it that way so you don't want anything to change that. But just like any other game out there eventually people will get bored of the same thing over and over. We can get 100 new cards in the next week and it wont change the fact that the ones who can sit in front of a comp and play this game for hrs on end have a HUGE advantage over the casual players.





As for my writing silux: Writing  in an appealing and ordered way is an high kind of education.  has nothing to do with my education. Nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. I do not write on threads, forums, or post every day and in fact i have not had to write in a specific format since i was in school about 10 yrs ago so excuse me if im a lil rusty.

As always im open to suggestions and have yet to receive any thing other then mundane insults and complaints. I find this rather strange considering when the idea was posted same as it is here on another site people loved it but that site has no direct effect on what gos on here.                       





   

[ZephyrPhantom]

First, I went through the idea and made up my mind on it.
Then, I read through the thread.
Comments on Idea:
-It seems to be a method to get rares easier. (Just a heads up, that's something Zanz doesn't want.)
-The prestige borders seems like a mundane thing when said cards are easily available at the shop. I'm not sure if players would want to reset their level just to get a shiny foil card (Alt art like the Foil Chimera increases that chance, but then it devalues the rarity of such cards and it's hard to find dedicated artists who will make good alt art.)

-Alternatively, you seem to imply that Prestige cards are more powerful than other cards. While rares do have the right to powerful abilities, they still need to be balanced accordingly to other cards.

-Prestige PvP is basically a PvP1.5 - I don't see what new things would come out of this besides complicating the PvP servers. Simplicity is a nice thing in Elements.

-A player's use of upgraded cards should not be limited based on any sort of level. Electrum and time are already solid "limits" for use of upgraded cards.

-There are some decks made with the intent to grind score. This results in a broken system where players now grind even more.

IMHO, a good suggestion needs to:[/li]Be fun.[/li]Limit the possible grinding factor.[/li]Not cause the newer players and elite players to become even more distanced. (Your system would cause elite players to grind and reset their score a lot.....)[/li]

-Overall, the idea makes rares dirt cheap compared to even the old T50 system. As I mentioned earlier, that's something Zanz doesn't want. While more cards are great for the card pool, you should find a way to rework the system so that it does not devalue rares. (Foil versions of normal cards and possibly a set of card ideas you specifically make for this system could work)
Comments on Thread:

really it took u that long just because i didn't use what some of u consider a smarter, more educated format? i do apologize for the barbaric writing method used but as a said b4 it was a spur of the moment idea and late at night.

I wouldn't consider a person who uses correct grammar and spelling actually a smarter person, but it does help others understand (some forums ban 1337speak with the intent to provide clear communication). It would be nice if you edited your first post and spaced out the idea a bit, though.

[llehsnatas]

Thank you for entertaining my idea and taking the effort in trying to understand it better. While not complete the rewrite will include an alt system for the rares. 1 idea (probably the best idea) is that the higher the prestige lvl then the higher the rare u can chose but rares will be offered only once every 5 prestige lvls so when someone reaches prestige 5 they can have a choice of 1 out of 3-4 bronze type rares or a spin chance for a mark. They would be able to chose the mark they want but no more then one type of mark can be won this way. 

 I don't mean to make prestige cards sound more powerful just a chance to get rares with an alt art (really wouldn't be that hard to make a bronze coated border around a card) to show ones prestige and so that the extra cards and marks gained through this system can be easily distinguished from the rest of the cards. These cards would only be available through this system and could not be won in spins  from other pvp matches or FGs. 

As for the PPvPP system that would be the only way to earn any prestige score  so grinding would only be possible against other prestige players. The lower the prestige player you face the lower the prestige score gained and vice versa.

In this system limiting the use of upgraded cards will allow some of the newer players to get involved since they were not around to farm the T50 for rares or upgraded cards or been here long enough to accumulate as much electrum as the more veteran players. It would be something like every 2 lvls of prestige you can use 5 more upped cards in a prestige deck/game.

Basically this idea is to give PvPing more meaning and some sort of goal and since it would be something new i think everyone should start equally. While the vet players will still have a slight advantage do to the cards and experience they already have. This system will give newer players something to strive for and at the same time give vet players a better way to challenge them selves other then the same ole Ai grind.

The arena while a good idea has allowed very low score players to farm much higher scored players earning them 10x the score they would normally get from PvP or FG's. All they have to do is use a counter deck for all the ccyb, immo rush, ghostall decks in the plat arena and they win 90% of the time with out even trying. This is going to cause the current score system to become meaningless if allowed to continue.

As for the importance of keeping such a great (free) game simple i understand that perfectly well, but when such a game is gaining popularity on a daily basis and has so many users already playing then you have to make room for them and up the servers for better connectivity and newer bigger things to come.   

 

[RootRanger]

yeah i have been rewriting the entire idea and even though that first minimalist post stated that u would have a CHANCE to get a mark perhaps i should have said, a small chance to win a mark. i have since rethought this part of the idea and based on other forums (not here) pple like the idea of a chance to win a mark if they have to work hard to get that chance. so i decided that a small chance (>25%) to win a mark every 5 prestige lvls would be more efficient.

There shouldn't be any chance to win a mark from something that barely involves any skill.
Marks are the last card in the game that is actually won from skill. Please don't ruin their value and meaning.

i mean surely its not to just gain enough electrum as fast as possible just to go play pvp is it ?

PvP is the only reason a lot of people play. Myself included.

So you admit that score is not related to skill at all, then why make such a fuss over such a simple thing as score?

A lot of events, as well as Arena, involve score.
 

To me this would be a good way to have some sort of goal in PvPing other then score

...
How about tournaments, events, leagues, war, and trials? Ever heard of those?

As for all your complaining RootRanger how about you make some suggestions to ways of improving this idea or even suggest your own idea instead of just shooting down something that isn't to your liking.

I've posted the changes I want in The Metagame thread. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.0.html) And I have good reasons for why I want the changes I have in mind.

it wont change the fact that the ones who can sit in front of a comp and play this game for hrs on end have a HUGE advantage over the casual players.

I'm really not sure you completely understand the game.
Having a lot of score and electrum isn't really an advantage that is rewarded very much.
Having skill is what is rewarded; it is what gives players marks, award icons, Master titles, and War success.

[llehsnatas]

most of what u had to say root only includes stuff on the site and not in the actual game. i have read on most of this stuff and it seems to me that 90% of the people involved in this kind of stuff are the long term players.

 as far as i understand it one would need a high score in order to participate in some tourneys and the whole war thing so ur statement of "Having skill is what is rewarded; it is what gives players marks, award icons, Master titles, and War success." is very hypocritical of the other points u tired to argue about score. 
 and when u say "I've posted the changes I want in The Metagame thread. And I have good reasons for why I want the changes I have in mind." are u implying that i am physic and was suppose to know what u have posted before i made my remark?

all an all the prestige lvling system would be something u could do for urself it wouldnt be required for anything other then prestige pvping unless it was some how worked in to a prestige only arena,tournament,war, etc etc.   

[RootRanger]

as far as i understand it one would need a high score in order to participate in some tourneys and the whole war thing

No. Anyone can enter a PvP Event. Anyone can enter BL. Anyone with 30 posts (which hardly takes any time) can enter a tournament. Making a war team has no score requirement and anyone can try to enter. The only events that require a score requirement are CL and Trials, but the score requirement is very low and easy to achieve. In the end, score plays an extremely small role in awards.

are u implying that i am physic and was suppose to know what u have posted before i made my remark?

yes u r physic

[ZephyrPhantom]

Just make the prestige rewards foil versions of a small group of nonrare cards (probably pillars, dragons, and some select cards like Fallen Druid and Mind Flayer), or make your own set of cards that would be awarded through this system. (Infact, you could just call those cards 'Uncommons', similar to how the WoE merchant system treats certain cards - they probably wouldn't be considered rare enough to be a rare but you need to implement some sort of hurdle to make it something to work for)

Rares won't be devalued, new ones are added, and you can use the accumulated score for whatever you want.

Not sure if this was mentioned in the thread already but you could just "spend" score (prestige or normal) to get these cards from a spinner (note that spending normal score can cause players to delevel in Arena if prestiges are made expensive enough).

[llehsnatas]

lol psychic*

Z i like ur idea the point of having rares was to give people something for prestigeing. as for making existing cards foil coated thats more of the direction im leaning towards. making my own set of cards would require a lot of work and the cards would have very lil chance of getting in the game so before i put the time and effort in to that i would have to know this idea even has a chance.
  one idea i have been mewling around is to create a prestigious shard for each element that would be foil lined or coated. or even use existing shards but give them a foil coating.  so right now im thinking shards and maybe be able to spend prestige score points on making any card gold plated ? that way players can show off they're prestige and the cards would still be separated from the foil coated cards u can only use in prestige matches. eh i dont know as of yet but thanks for the positive feed back Zblader and in the future maybe we can work together on this idea.