More money for Zanz and more updates for us!

[laxnut90]

@marvaddin
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. I don't know about having people be able to buy every card in the game, but I was thinking something along the same lines as a premium account. Marsu, I was thinking that this premium account could include something like: Free electrum each month, two oracle spins each day, An extra 25% electrum from farming, and I love the idea of a discount for everything you buy! That way people would actually probably farm more, because they're getting more from it!

Maybe also having a superstart one time buy option that would just give you 50,000 electrum that you could only do once, with a minimum score/net worth in cards. So that you can get a fully upgraded farmer off the bat, but farming to this point still wouldn't take new players terrible long.

@Marsu
I would really like to clarify that I see this game as an amazing thing that I do not want to ruin with greed. And I'm definitely in the "Make more money + positively influence the game/don't affect it at all = You'd be an idiot not to do it." line of thought! And I absolutely think Zanz can do that, with or without my help, but I would love to help! The whole point of business and investing to me is to make the populous feel great and happy and to make money doing it. Certainly not to take a great product and make it less fun while making more money. I also believe that if the game ever starts to stray down that path the community will come together and change it amazingly fast!

Something I feel has been under discussed that I would like to poke at again is simply running donation campaigns with player to player rewards for donating.

While I agree with you to a point about increasing the incentive to donate, many of these suggestions go too far. 

Firstly, Allowing extra oracle spins in any form would give unfair advantages in arena deck building.  This would put players who farm the arena at an even greater disadvantage.

Secondly, if people are suddenly allowed to buy electrum, Elements will eventually devolve into a spitting image of every other online game where you "could" play for free, but are at such a great disadvantage against players who do pay.  If that happens, it will ruin Elements completely for all players.

I personally believe the best way to get an increase in donations is to widen the Elements fan base.  As I mentioned earlier, we should try to spread the word on outside forums. 

[Marvaddin]

There are already rewards for donations...

It seems as if every time a new player takes to this game and they like it, they are greeted with a great obstacle in obtaining all the cards and the flexibility to play any deck... GRINDING.

While I know it's a very long and grueling task to grind your ass off for hours on end to be able to afford 1 or 2 ups and some would rather throw their cash at a developer to obtain this goal, it will only degrade the game and cause it's demise.

The reason for this is, that it's just a game... There are no real life rewards that come with it except for the enjoyment of playing the game itself. I'm not just talking about playing the game but advancing through the levels of the game by your own accomplishment. Why would I ever want to buy a game and the cheat book for that game? Isn't discovery and conquest part of the reason you play games in the first place? Do you just play games to add another virtual badge to your chest upon completion?

If Elements ever goes to a pay to play type atmosphere I'd guess every Vet would slowly back away never to be seen from again. Why do some find it so difficult to put forth the effort that so many others have achieved before them?

If you would like to be able to play any deck whenever you want, please use the Trainer and don't try to make the Main Game into every other CCG

Link to Trainer: http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer

While some people have played through all these hours needed to have a full set of upgraded cards (the forum has a list of these "heroes", like a dozen of them), many many other people, we can surely say, thousands, have quit during the loooong way, because GRINDING IS BORING. I play this game for more than 3 years now (some times I quit playing for some weeks, but yet, I return and play, frequently, for more than 3 years), and Im still far away from this goal. Whats the problem if a premium pack can borrow you some cards?

Most multiplayer games that are "pay-to-play", you 'can' play for free. The problem is when you put a lot of effort to evolve your castle/city/army/fleet/etc, and then someone that started to play 1 week ago completelly owns you just because he spent money in that game. Like the example I just gave. Suppose there are really broken cards (which nymphs are not) that can be acessed just by paying. It doesnt matter how much time you wasted grindind, you will be owned. Its not the case if the opponent just get the same cards you got (with less effort, of course), you will be at same situation playing, he receives no advantage. Say to me, whats the problem if someone uses features from a premium pack to get a good collection with less effort than you? When you play vs him (and possibly defeat him using your bigger game knowledge and experience), how can you say his cards were upgraded using a discount given to premium players?

Time to stop the paranoia. While things are fair between free and premium players, while there is no thing they can have and we dont (or these things are cosmetic, like art, and we can beat them without it), Im ok with it. If this helps the game to have more updates, and more content added, then Im all up to it. Much better than having 1 update and 2 new cards per year.

@marvaddin
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. I don't know about having people be able to buy every card in the game, but I was thinking something along the same lines as a premium account. Marsu, I was thinking that this premium account could include something like: Free electrum each month, two oracle spins each day, An extra 25% electrum from farming, and I love the idea of a discount for everything you buy! That way people would actually probably farm more, because they're getting more from it!

Maybe also having a superstart one time buy option that would just give you 50,000 electrum that you could only do once, with a minimum score/net worth in cards. So that you can get a fully upgraded farmer off the bat, but farming to this point still wouldn't take new players terrible long.

@Marsu
I would really like to clarify that I see this game as an amazing thing that I do not want to ruin with greed. And I'm definitely in the "Make more money + positively influence the game/don't affect it at all = You'd be an idiot not to do it." line of thought! And I absolutely think Zanz can do that, with or without my help, but I would love to help! The whole point of business and investing to me is to make the populous feel great and happy and to make money doing it. Certainly not to take a great product and make it less fun while making more money. I also believe that if the game ever starts to stray down that path the community will come together and change it amazingly fast!

Something I feel has been under discussed that I would like to poke at again is simply running donation campaigns with player to player rewards for donating.

While I agree with you to a point about increasing the incentive to donate, many of these suggestions go too far. 

Firstly, Allowing extra oracle spins in any form would give unfair advantages in arena deck building.  This would put players who farm the arena at an even greater disadvantage.

Secondly, if people are suddenly allowed to buy electrum, Elements will eventually devolve into a spitting image of every other online game where you "could" play for free, but are at such a great disadvantage against players who do pay.  If that happens, it will ruin Elements completely for all players.

I personally believe the best way to get an increase in donations is to widen the Elements fan base.  As I mentioned earlier, we should try to spread the word on outside forums. 

I agree about the Arena deck building. We would need to think about it.

Why the hell selling Electrum ruins the game? What is electrum used for? 2 single things: buy cards AND upgrade cards. Unupgraded cards are cheap, anyone can create a deck using a little amount of electrum. Upgrading cards is expensive. So, you are a free player? Dont have enough electrum? Play PvE, or PvP1. Wanna play PvP2 with unupgraded deck? DONT do that! You got electrum by grinding? Or bought it? Have an upgraded deck? Wants to play PvP2? Go ahead. Met someone with an upgraded deck? What a surprise! Why is the game ruined?

So, you are a newbie and bought no electrum. The guy at your side bought 13 tons of electrum. You will upgrade your deck before going to PvP2, or you will play PvP1. Whats the great disadvantage?

Mate, the game experience will change completelly nothing to those that dont pay. Impossible to enjoy? Why? Because you will know there are people with an improved experience? Makes no sense.

Increasing the fan base is always good. But to keep the fan base, having frequent updates is usually better. If premium players help this, well, you know, Im all up for their improved game experience.

[Hazardus10]

Hmm, Donations........

Well we have fantastic rewards that can be gained from donations, a special chimera, and awesome shards.  Not to mention donating just improves the overall quality of the game, a reward itself.

Several suggestion to improve donations:

1. Tiered donations. (The higher your donation level the more cards you can unlock to select from) (Maybe getting old school art for all cards) (No nymph or marks)
2. Possibly addition of a signature card for each element. (Card doesn't exist but someone could probably come up with awesome ideas)
3. Forum recognition status. (Displayable/Not Displayable) (Blue Stars instead of Yellow)
4. Possible other awards (Score Booster/Arena Level Booster 7 day period from use of activation code.) (Electrum Booster 3 day boost of 50% increase..)

Some suggestion. Although personally I think the donation section is pretty good. These are just my suggestion on increasing funding.

[Hazardus10]

@marvaddin
Thank you! I agree with everything you said. I don't know about having people be able to buy every card in the game, but I was thinking something along the same lines as a premium account. Marsu, I was thinking that this premium account could include something like: Free electrum each month, two oracle spins each day, An extra 25% electrum from farming, and I love the idea of a discount for everything you buy! That way people would actually probably farm more, because they're getting more from it!

Maybe also having a superstart one time buy option that would just give you 50,000 electrum that you could only do once, with a minimum score/net worth in cards. So that you can get a fully upgraded farmer off the bat, but farming to this point still wouldn't take new players terrible long.

@Marsu
I would really like to clarify that I see this game as an amazing thing that I do not want to ruin with greed. And I'm definitely in the "Make more money + positively influence the game/don't affect it at all = You'd be an idiot not to do it." line of thought! And I absolutely think Zanz can do that, with or without my help, but I would love to help! The whole point of business and investing to me is to make the populous feel great and happy and to make money doing it. Certainly not to take a great product and make it less fun while making more money. I also believe that if the game ever starts to stray down that path the community will come together and change it amazingly fast!

Something I feel has been under discussed that I would like to poke at again is simply running donation campaigns with player to player rewards for donating.

While I agree with you to a point about increasing the incentive to donate, many of these suggestions go too far. 

Firstly, Allowing extra oracle spins in any form would give unfair advantages in arena deck building.  This would put players who farm the arena at an even greater disadvantage.

Secondly, if people are suddenly allowed to buy electrum, Elements will eventually devolve into a spitting image of every other online game where you "could" play for free, but are at such a great disadvantage against players who do pay.  If that happens, it will ruin Elements completely for all players.

I personally believe the best way to get an increase in donations is to widen the Elements fan base.  As I mentioned earlier, we should try to spread the word on outside forums.

Electrum buying doesn't ruin the game. It's all about strategy, there are many skilled players that can build unupped deck which can obliterate upped decks.  Although electrum cost would affect arena, but only slightly.  Also technically buying electrum is currently possible through donations.  All you need to do is select an upped card as your reward and then sell it.

[Marvaddin]

One more thing Im thinking about, Hazardus... You could be able to customize the game area with a theme for your favourite element. All these years playing over that wooden background... not to mention that Fire Bolt in the game window.

Well, returning to the electrum point, dunno even if it would have a real Arena influence, because you know, you need skill points to put upgraded cards in your deck. So upgraded cards still wouldnt be common in lower leagues.

But in fact, selling electrum is not even needed. If I was game designer, and was wanting to improve game experience for real money, this is what I would do:

- Premium user receives all cards, basic and upgraded, like in the trainer. 24 of each tower and pendulum, 6 of other cards.
- In the Build Deck screen, you would have 2 tabs or buttons, which you would use to switch between your collection and the "trainer" cards. The game should be able to store 2 different decks, one for your collection, and one for the "trainer".
- In the settings, you could change between the 2 decks.
- If you choose PvP1 or PvP2 (but not PvP Duel), you automactilly use your collection deck. Otherwise, you use the deck marked in the settings.
- If you go to Bazaar, only your collection is there (trainer cards cant be sold). Same to Arena deck building screen.
- If you get a card from a spin or oracle, it goes for your collection.
- When your premium time expires, the trainer cards and deck are removed, you only have your collection again.

This would give to premium players a full experience of PvE, like the trainer, but you can play Arena, and you will still improve your account. No more boring grind for weeks before having an anti-FG deck. Worthy paying? Yes, if you like PvE. More than once? Possibly. Ruins the game for other people? I doubt it. Premium players would still grind more easily than free players because using upgraded cards, but nothing wrong about that. Well, this if they grind at all.

To make the premium more attractive, I would add some more small advantages. Like 1 of each rare weapon, SOME electrum (not a lot), the customizable game area I just mentioned, and if you buy 12 months, why not a Nymph? Nothing really broken, just... attractive.

[bripod]

If "fan base" requires more of the sort who wish to change the game into a pay for play environment, then I'm all against it....

With effort comes reward... suck it up, grind... it's funny to see how many "forum go-ers" want to be a part of everything "Elements" without actually playing the game...

[Marvaddin]

Ok, so, can you explain why my idea in the post above yours would change the game into "pay for play environment"? Everyone can still play for free exactly like it is now. Some that pay, can have a better / faster PvE experience. When playing vs free players, they get no advantage. Whats the problem?

If EtG would become a greedy copy of other games, like Tyrant, or Card Monsters, where you can just pay a lot of money and get a perfect deck a free player would never have (because boosters containing rare cards are expensive, require a lot of grind, and give you 1 rare card with a 0,5% chance of being the one you are looking for), well, this sucks. As here every deck is obtainable with a reasonable amount of grinding (except decks with Nymphs / Marks), including upgraded ones (once you have a good grinder deck), we dont have this problem.

[timetock]

donating would just be an accelerator to the gaming experience and a shortcut to better cards. -Simply put.
(Just like so many IAPs in iOS games)

[Naesala]

It seems to come down to this.

Is PvE grinding an essential part of elements the game? Let's look at some facts: 1) no on enjoys grinding excessively. 2) The game is balanced first on PvP then on PvE as needed. 3) Many players never stick with the game because grinding takes so long 4) Most grinding is copy pasting a tested deck and running the strategy that another player used.

So, no. Grinding is not an essential part of EtG. And adding paid content that helps get over the annoyingness of grinding while not effecting the meta is fantastic. I have personally introduced 5 players to the game, all of whom quit because it took too long for them to get a deck they liked, and couldn't experiment at low levels. Why must experimenting, the most fun and creative part of the game, be limited to the elite, and the few who know the trainer (which honestly isn't really the game).

[Marsu]

No. I'm almost happy now that Zanz doesn't care for us anyway because of the crap I have to read here.

I'll try to make it simple. People that are willing to pay money for a free online game are the minority. Let's say 10%. If you could buy Electrum, or an Electrum/XP boost, those 10% sure would be happy, and more of those 10% would keep playing this game. However, the 90% that are not exactly motivated to farm 100k Electrum with their crap deck that barely beats AI3 would keep hearing how you can just buy Electrum (Elements Chat, Kong Chat, PvP1/2) which would change the level of their demotivation from "meh" to "Ok, fuck this".

I personally don't know a single person that stopped playing Elements because grinding takes long, and I know a lot of people that used to play. Everyone who quitted did it because stuff like PvP tournaments &  events are hidden in the forum and not directly linked to this game.

So, please. Stop trying to kill this game.

[Marvaddin]

I will try to make it simple for you too, Marsu. What you are saying is:
1. Game is bad.
2. Keep it bad for everyone, otherwise some people will leave, because... the game is bad, but just for them.

1st, I disagree about the game being bad. Dunno if I can explain why, but I love the game. All deck diversity, all having their weak and strong points, the way there is no superior strategy, and all is avaliable to everyone. 12 elements, wow, MagictG has 5 colours. 2nd, will people leave because the game is the same for them, it just got improved for other people? I doubt it! If you already dislike the game (you are playing and getting infinite ammount of "meh") why are you playing? Why not change a lot of people from "meh" to "hmmm, full experience for 2 bucks a month"?

Everyone who quitted did it because stuff is hidden, you say. How much of old forum users, which knew where the stuff is, have abandoned us? No, mate, people leave because 1. grinding is boring 2. there is little stuff, in fact, so the game itself becomes boring for most people. If there was a great diversity of things to do, and updates every month, I bet a lot of people would stay. This is what I would like, new features, new cards, quests, etc.

Kill the game? I would stay and enjoy. Would you say "ok, f*** this" and leave?

[Hazardus10]

I will try to make it simple for you too, Marsu. What you are saying is:
1. Game is bad.
2. Keep it bad for everyone, otherwise some people will leave, because... the game is bad, but just for them.

1st, I disagree about the game being bad. Dunno if I can explain why, but I love the game. All deck diversity, all having their weak and strong points, the way there is no superior strategy, and all is avaliable to everyone. 12 elements, wow, MagictG has 5 colours. 2nd, will people leave because the game is the same for them, it just got improved for other people? I doubt it! If you already dislike the game (you are playing and getting infinite ammount of "meh") why are you playing? Why not change a lot of people from "meh" to "hmmm, full experience for 2 bucks a month"?

Everyone who quitted did it because stuff is hidden, you say. How much of old forum users, which knew where the stuff is, have abandoned us? No, mate, people leave because 1. grinding is boring 2. there is little stuff, in fact, so the game itself becomes boring for most people. If there was a great diversity of things to do, and updates every month, I bet a lot of people would stay. This is what I would like, new features, new cards, quests, etc.

Kill the game? I would stay and enjoy. Would you say "ok, **** this" and leave?

Language please, remember when posting, to still follow the rules. No profanity please.