Game now too difficult for new players?

[Zuphix]

25 hours game time, thats it?  I think it should take longer, grinding is part of the game, things won't handed out to new players, they must work for them like everyone else has.

The thing is, it used to be easier for everyone else, only 25 hours, but only if you already have the best of everything. It will obviously take at least 5 times longer for a new player if he luckily stumbles accross a decent AI3 grinder deck.

I've already done it, I have my upgraded farming decks. I'm just a thoughtful person and am speaking on behalf of players who are having a hard time atm. The game used to increase in difficulty at a slightly slower pace, now it Jumps up after you can beat AI3 consistently. Farming AI3 for an upgraded deck costs 45k electrum, and with the fastest dec (upgraded) that takes roughly 25 hours of play time, new players won't have an upgraded deck, and it won't be an extremely fast one either.

So don't rely on AI3 all the way for it...
Who says you need a fully upped deck to fight FGs?  Especially with the oracle prediction each day, even a fully UNupped deck can win enough to be somewhat profitable.  Once you get a few key cards upped like Supernova or RoL, you can farm them for upped cards much faster. Not to mention those same FGs also have a decent chance for the rares as well.   If I remember right, when I first started, it might have taken me a week or 2 at most to get to this stage.  Before then, new players probably aren't really ready for more advanced challenges anyway, no matter what cards they have.  They need to learn some basics of how the game works and strategy first anyway, so this doesn't seem to unreasonable.  And in some ways, this is one of the more rewarding stages of the game when you actually feel like you're accomplishing something compared to later on when you're mindlessly grinding away to up your 6th different deck.

I didn't say anything about fighting FGs, I was merely using stats from some of the best AI3 grinder decks and saying that it takes much longer for new players because of the sudden increased difficulty curve. How do you suppose new players know that Supernova or RoL are key cards to upgrade? Looking on the forums to use other decks was one thing I said shouldn't be encouraged, new players should design their own decks; and not suffer for it.

You do have a point about learning the basics though, most of the friends I show this game to have some card game experience, so they picked up the basics fairly quickly, but still wanted their own decks. Rainbow is something we are trying to avoid, I am not aware of an UNupped mono deck that can win enough against FGs though.

[Calindu]

Well,when i made an alt i started with grabbix with gavel and Antagon grabbow with gavels too(i started with a 2nd prize in tourney code) then played bronze(maybe silver) easy.Until i had 500 score i already had 2 arsenics,2 pulvy's,miracle,eternity and a lot of money.
So it isn't hard.

[Hodari]

Rainbow is something we are trying to avoid, I am not aware of an UNupped mono deck that can win enough against FGs though.

Mono might be tough but for duos, there are a few options.  I remember starting out with a fractal pest/vampire deck and using that to win enough that I could make RoL Hope(note these 2 decks shared a lot of cards anyway) and then switching to that

[Mainiak]

I think rares are actually easier to come by now... a simple grabbix can grab you up to 95% win rate in bronze
you can farm rares like no other like that...

It's actually closer to 65-75% win rate - and you got major problem against often used dim shields. So not so easy - I got 4 Spins out of 100 games.

[Haltar Dhrim]

I think that a possible solution may be this:

The number of consecutive wins required is decreased for low-level players (less than level 10, or 15).

This way newbies may win rares more easily, like top50... That remains still slightly more difficult thought, since bronze league can have 150+ hp, but we can compare it to the old level 5, now lv4...

[TheManuz]

I don't know, maybe new players need only suggestions on how to do things.
I mean, the steps are:
grind AI3 to get almost every unupped card you can buy in bazaar.
Then start farming FG thanks to Oracle predictions.
Then you build your first RoL/Hope or CCYB.
It's not that hard, but someone (maybe the oracle?) should tell it to new players.

[Bhlewos]

The problem I see is the steep learning curve. Assuming the average casual player is only in this for entertainment, he or she probably won't actively seek out guides in the forums or wiki like I and a lot of others did. That means their only information comes from the game itself, and the tutorials there are lacking (at least in comparison to Scaredgirl's, jmizzle's, or Xeno's).

A lot of tricks that are obvious to us may not be so for that player. There is nothing in the game itself that tells you explicitly that rainbows are a possibility -- you have to either find that in the forums/wiki (which our hypothetical newb doesn't), or find that out through experience against decks in the Arena. A lot of times the initial frustration can be too much for the player, and this more often than not weeds out the casual players and leaves only the hardcore ones who are willing to grind, look up the guides, and learn the details of deckbuilding. But then again, Elements isn't really for the casual player, so change might not be necessary. No reason to fix what's broken.

[Hodari]

A lot of tricks that are obvious to us may not be so for that player. There is nothing in the game itself that tells you explicitly that rainbows are a possibility -- you have to either find that in the forums/wiki (which our hypothetical newb doesn't), or find that out through experience against decks in the Arena. A lot of times the initial frustration can be too much for the player, and this more often than not weeds out the casual players and leaves only the hardcore ones who are willing to grind, look up the guides, and learn the details of deckbuilding. But then again, Elements isn't really for the casual player, so change might not be necessary. No reason to fix what's broken.

Actually I would have to say there IS something in the game that tells you it is possible, namely the fact that there are at least 2 cards which produce quanta of all types...why would these exist if you weren't intended to be able to use all of them?  And yes, there are a lot of other things that a casual player might not discover without looking up guides or checking the forums but...how is that different from a lot of other online games?   There is only so much that can be explained directly in the game itself and at some point it comes down to being a matter of getting out of the game what you are willing to put into it.  If you want to be competitive against the higher levels of Arena or even the AI, you need to put a bit of effort into learning as much as you can about the game first.  And it's not like the forums are THAT hard to find since there's a link to them right on the main page for the game

[Pineapple]

The game was a lot easier to get used to when PvP1 and PvP2 were merged...I gained a lot of experience playing against, talking to, and copying "pros" with legit decks. Now, PvP2 is dangerous, and PvP1 is full of noobs.

[maverixk]

I would have to agree and say it has gotten harder. I'm not against making rares just that, rare, but it is definitely more difficult. I used to grind t50 with a mono deck when I had less than 500 score(obviously all unupped) and I like some of the things that arena has done, but even the easiest of the easy, bronze, is difficult unless you are just naturally good or seek help on the forums, which the casual player most likely won't do.
I have no idea how to help new players, although I did suggest lowering the cost of upgrading the first few cards once, but I definitely agree that EtG has gotten harder for new or casual players.

[johannhowitzer]

Really?  I've found that it's pretty trivial to start a new account, choose the Darkness starter, sell everything and buy a basic rainbow and then ace Bronze endlessly.  I got my first rarespin at 28 score with this beast:

by johannhowitzer

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vp 52t 55l 55u 590 5c1 5c7 5lf 5lm 5og 5om 5rk 5uv 61r 620 8pu

All of that was put together out of the Darkness starter and the first four quests. 

I call RNG shenanigans.  I upped two thirds of this deck and have yet to chain three wins against Bronze after about 20 games.

[Mainiak]

I don't know, maybe new players need only suggestions on how to do things.
I mean, the steps are:
grind AI3 to get almost every unupped card you can buy in bazaar.
Then start farming FG thanks to Oracle predictions.
Then you build your first RoL/Hope or CCYB.
It's not that hard, but someone (maybe the oracle?) should tell it to new players.

And where do I get that 3 Lobos for RoL-Hope and the 2 Pulvys for CCYB? 

I wouldn't call the use of unupped decks for daily oracle predictions "farming".