field cards for elements ( good idea / bad idea ? )

[ibeporkinu]

my idea is to use field changing cards kinda like eclipse. such as eclipse would change the field to dark giving like  +2/+1 to all dark creatures on  the field and like a -1/-1 to all light creatures. once the card is played its gone from field but the effect stays ( this will prevent making it permanent ) and can be removed by other cards or replaced by another field card played by either player. and for rainbow decks maybe have one that changes the field to a random field on the players turn who played it ? or something like that. i don't suggest a modifier being more then +2/+2 on any of the elements because this would make it to powerful. if this could be implemented into elements then it would change the way we use and create decks while still keeping things pretty equal and giving us more strategics to use with the current cards. cost would have to be kinda high to prevent it from being played first round and so u dnt just go back and forth changing the field so i was thinking maybe 6-7 relative quanta cost (upped ) and 7-8 unupped. this could even allow for creature*  cards to have field changing effects and even cards that will block the field from being changed the possibilities are endless so give me  some feed back on this and i even have an idea for some cards that i might post later

[Isei]

This could work.  Cloak already sort of does this, by altering the playing field.  However, I believe the field cards should probably still be permanents.  That way, if a field card is problematic, you can answer it with PC rather than being forced to play your own field.

[johannhowitzer]

So... sort of like in Chrono Cross?  Maybe certain creatures could tack on their element to the field effect.

Decent idea, but I'm not sure it would mesh well with the way the game has been established to work.  Something this game-changing would need a lot of consideration and balancing tweaks before it could begin to be practical.

[ibeporkinu]

i can see how it would take a lil work to implement this into the game but if done it will greatly improve game play as of now 90% of the players only use one strat and thats to do as much dmg as possible as quickly as they can. to me this ruins the game because now 90% of the pvp is nothing but rush decks. and the more popular this game gets the more newbs with rush decks we see which means yeah sure they might win a lil more frequently but they learn nothing about the game and gain no skill what so ever. as for makeing it a perm i dnt think it would work all that great maybe i just wsnt clear but it changes the whole field ( both sides of play ) and both receive a bonus or nerf depending on the element the field has been changed into. i would like to see more cards in this game that make u think not just mindlessly play fire rushes. i know the game is free and takes donations so there may not be adequate funds to improve it greatly overnight but this is just an idea and should be looked into.
 

[johannhowitzer]

Hm... you really should look into PvP.  Serious tournaments aren't won by pure damage - many people play stall decks, reversal decks, vampire decks, creatureless... it's pretty varied.  Rushes dominate only in the grinding arena, and rightly so, because they are the fastest at getting results against the AI.

[ibeporkinu]

dude im not going to argue with u. i can tell u are one of those pple who are always right and so smart that u know everything. so why are u not working for NASA instead of playing an online TCG ? anyways the core game consist of PVP1 and PvP2 not just tourneys. as for grinding Ai i dnt see a problem with that but all these non talent wannabes that use em in pvp2 24/7 get on my nerves. i have like 3 decks that loose to rush decks about 1/5 times but i cnt try out any new decks ( yes i know about the trainer ) because so many rushes will destroy it in PvP so i get tired of it and go back to one of my Anti rush decks. anyways with a field changing card for water could go something like this , +2/+1 for water creatures and -2/-1 for fire creatures  not really stomping out the fire rush but at least giving water an advantage against one and also a disadvantage but at least fire rush wouldnt be so simple  . and it seems like some of the elements just dnt get that much use but with being able to increase on an element might help em out and let pple come up with ALOT !!! of new strats and help the creators create some new cards that have effects related to the changes in fields. such as a shield (creatures with momentum still get bonus ) or shard that ignores negative field effects ( hey look fire rush is still alive ) or a creature with the ability to change the field to there element for a lil cheaper cost then the card that changes it (call em land spirits or something kinda like the nymphs ? ) or even something like sanctuary that prevents the field from changing. using a wind field card would be difficult grounds to prevent a rush from the field bonus and wing blitz but im sure we could find a way to make it work.  another thing i think would work well for this game is to increase the min cards allowed in a deck to 35 yes there would still be rush decks but come on with 30 cards in a deck it just allows a rush deck to much of an advantage over a deck that has 35-45 cards and uses some strategy to play. 
 

[johannhowitzer]

Heh, OK, Mr. Wall of Text.  You're right, PvP2 is nothing but rushes, whatever you say.  Why not try PvP1 then?  I actually prefer PvP1 for a couple reasons - first, I don't have to go pay for a bunch of upgrades, I can buy a new interesting deck for usually under 1500.  Second, working with slower pillars forces people to plan ahead a lot more.  I've had great success in PvP1 with a huge variety of decks - everything from an Earth/Gravity Shield stall to a novarush to a new Ghost of the Past/Nightmare combo.

Getting back to the ideas... I actually toyed with something like this for a while, but rather than change existing cards I was going to introduce a series of Glyph cards that served as game-wide effects.  The Earth glyph, for example, would cause every new creature to gain -1|+2 - both friendlies and foes.  I'm not going to give anything else away, though, as the series is still technically in progress - I just haven't got art for it yet.

If you have an idea as complex as this, please, flesh it out more!  Only you know what is in your head, and we can all discuss the balance issues more concretely if we have something concrete to discuss.

[johannhowitzer]

Well, my glyph ideas aren't actually permanents, and don't stack with other glyphs, and aren't retroactive, and are gonna be pretty pricey on the quanta.  So there's some balance there.

As for the wall of text thing - no one really does care, since the only person being hurt is you.  Walls of text tend to deter people from reading your post... so if you want more people to pay attention, the obvious thing to do would be to make your posts easier on people's eyes.

[TheForbiddenOracle]

imo if their were field cards it would feel like yugioh

[OldTrees]

Field cards are a good idea if done right.

However Hosers are not a good idea for ETG (as learned from the metagame effect of Holy Light)

You will be interested in: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23187.0.html
and you might like to browse this subforum: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,6.0.html
But make sure to read this carefully: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5039.0.html

[bored_ninja777]

imo if their were field cards it would feel like yugioh

as soon as i read field card i thought yugioh..
and yes many tcg's are very heavily based on mtg..
As much as a lot of the ideas of magic do tend to swirl into elements and im sure other tcg ideas end up here too,
i think it is much better to do as original idea possible that fits in game without huge amounts of overhauling of the game.
Field cards themselves wouldnt be used much i dont think just because cards that are too situational tend to be used less often. for example, the eclipse idea u proposed to have it change light types stats -/- for X amount. eclipse itself would be no more useful than it already is now unless you manage to fight miracle or destiny or someones top50 ROL hope deck, or a pvp player running a light deck.
then to make one for each of the elements and then one that fits a rainbow deck is just making it so people have the option to use a card specifically for 1 element vs. another.  Maybe go the route of inundation? those are field effect to a degree and are fairly unused. find a way to tweak those into more useable cards for each element? i know there was a card in crucible or somewhere in there as well like inundation.
I also thought about making cards that would boost up a certain subtype of creature but i think that would be even more situational and would also aide rush decks too heavily. golem or shrieker rush with a field card boosting attack plus shriekers burrow would be way too overpowered. boosting up frogs etc would or scorps would make things too overpowered too and would cause the game to need more balancing.

well im tired.. and hopefully not too offbase here.

[ibeporkinu]

i see what ur saying tree but isnt every element punished for useing that element by one element or another ? mono fire punishes every element except fire lol. and besides elements has over twice as many quanta options then MTG.
                                                         
                                                    ( no wall of text lol )

another idea i am throwing around is ultra rare cards called elemental's. they would be kinda like nymphs but instead of using a common skill they would change the field when they enter the battle and have about the same stats as a dragon from that element but cost like 15 or more quanta of relative element. so it would be like if u had a dark elemental and were playing against a light deck then u could earn 15 dark quanta and bring out ur elemental. upon bringing it out u get +2/+1 to all ur dark creatures on the field and dark creatures  brought out while dark elemental is in play and also the dark elemental will have like 10/4 stats + bonus. now ur light opponent who was just kicking ur ass has -2/-1 to all light creatures on the field or brought out while ur dark elemental is in play. kinda like a turn the tide card but not so op that as soon as u play it the game is over.


on another note what elements do u think should be opposed to each other ? and maybe some will give a slight bonus and/or nerf to other elements close to its opposite ? like earth vs fire even though water is the opposite of fire earth is still kinda strong against fire so maybe earth will just give like -0/-1 nerf to fire creatures or something like that ?  but then again this could start to get a lil difficult to emulate into the core game play.

fire vs water
death VS life
dark VS light
grav VS time ?
earth VS air ?
aether VS entropy ?
 
i have all kinds of ideas floating around in my head that i might add to this post or start on a diff one.