Elements Patch 2.p

[teffy]

I don´t see how we could really discuss this mass of  buffs/nerfs. We have Buff/Nerf sections for buffs/nerfs ,always related toone card. The buff /nerf suggestions somehow look random, I see no reasons for them (could you explain?). Some buffs/nerfs are really no-gos.

[Jocko]

I must say i dislike most of the changes proposed here.

Elements Patch 2.p
All Dragons gain the passive ability "Dragonbourne".  Dragonbourne gives a stat increase of +1/+1 for each ten quanta of that creatures Element. 
Why do dragons need a buff?

Antimatter:  Four turn duration.  Cost changed to X, where X is the cost of the target creature.
(eg. Casting Antimatter on Abomination costs 6 (1 + 5 casting cost).  It will always cost a minium of 1 to play Antimatter.  When the duration runs out the effect will revert.) Might be too expensive for 4 turns.

[/li]Alfatoxin: Cost reduced to 6 . Imo still expensive.

[/li]Cockatrice:  Gains +0/+1 each time it is poisoned. Why?

[/li]Ash:  Stats reduced to 0/1. 0/3 should be the min, although im okay with 0/5
[/li]Fire Spirit:  Stats increased to 2/2. Useless imo.
[/li]Immolation:  Cost increased to .  Sacrifice a creature to generate a maxium of 8 quanta and 12 quanta randomly.
(Hidden minimum is 7 generated, then 12 quanta are generated randomly.) Why randomly?

[/li]Flooding:  Five turn duration.  Kills all non-aquatic creatures along the edge of the field.  Affects both sides.  Upkeep removed. Protection against steal is ok, but why nerfing flooding?
[/li]Nymph Queen:  Additionally, all other Nymphs gain +2/+2. Per queen?
[/li]Purify:  May now target creatures or players. Would it heal creatures each turn?

[/li]Blessing:  Cost reduced to 2 . Will upped cost 1 or bless more?
[/li]Holy Light:  Restores up to 20 lost HP's to target creature, removes all negative effects from Light Creatures.
(eg.  If cast on a Light creature Holy Light has the ability to clear debuffs like Antimatter, lobotomize or poison.  It would not remove positive effects like Blessing or Momentum.) Doesn't seem useful enough and 20hp seems too much considering most creatures don't have 20.
[/li]Luciferin:  No longer heals for 10 HP's.  Heal 1 HP for each creature that already has "bioluminescence". It still gives bioluminescence to every creature without a skill?


[/li]Dune Scorpion:  Stats increased to 0/3. I don't think its needed.
[/li]Reverse Time:  Cost changed to X, where X is the cost of the target creature. Way too expensive.

[/li]Nightfall:  Playing additional Nightfalls grants one turn of the Cloak effect. Would they remain on field after wearing the cloak effect off?

[/li]Quintessence:  Upon gaining Immortality, previous skills are now removed. Not needed imo.
[/li]Turquoise Nymph:  Immortal.[/li][/list]

I disagree with many other changes but these caught my attention more.

[mesaprotector]

Some of these changes just seem like they don't fit too well and are extremely situational. (It's good to have vanilla attackers other than dragons, giving all creatures abilities would over-complicate things.) The X quanta costs, as well, just bug me and I think they'd be really hard to program.

Others seem sensible and even brilliant. I love the Earthquake change, and the Discord, Otyugh, Shrieker, Trident, and Fog Shield changes seem quite nice. Now, the few that I disagree with:

Bone Wall:  Now gains only 1 shield charge when a creature is killed. Death effect decks are already hard to set up. While I agree that the card is a little strong, I'd prefer fewer starting walls so it remains a strongly - affiliated card.

Flooding:  Five turn duration.  Kills all non-aquatic creatures along the edge of the field.  Affects both sides.  Upkeep removed. This seems like a nerf to me, which is definitely not needed for this card.

Ice Bolt:  Will always freeze the weapon when targeting a player. It doesn't always freeze creatures, so why should it always freeze weapons?

Wyrm:  Stats increased to 3/4.  Dive cost reduced to . Ever heard of Powerful Wyrms? It's the fastest deck in existence against AI3. I don't know why it isn't used more, but Wyrm is balanced.

Scarab:  Stats increased to 3/N. Please, no. Pharaoh decks were already strong, and got a huge buff with the SoR change. Scarab absolutely does not need a buff.

[plastiqe]

Dragons:  Why do dragons need a buff?

Increases the power of each mono Element.  Allows for the strategic option of storing up quanta to keep your Dragon strong, or spending quanta.  And

because they're dragons, they should be the best creatures.[/li][/list]Antimatter:  Might be too expensive for 4 turns.

Antimatter against a Crimson Dragon prevents 48 damage done and heals for 48, that is a 96 HP swing for 11 .  Antimatter against a Mummy prevents 20 damage done and heals for 20, that is a 40 HP swing for 5 .  It's still really good.[/li]

Cockatrice:  Why?

Every creature should have an ability, maybe it should lay eggs or something?  Life's creatures have low survivability so I gave it an anti-poison ability.[/li]

Ash:  0/3 should be the min, although im okay with 0/5

Phoenix still takes two shots to destroy, why should a pile of Ash have any HP at all?[/li]

Immolation:  Why randomly?

You might get enough of the quanta you need and you might not, the same as Nova.  If you want guaranteed quanta use a pillar.  If you want Rainbow decks to be all powerful you're in the wrong thread.  : P[/li]

Nymph Queen:  Per queen?

Yes.[/li]

Purify:  Would it heal creatures each turn?

Sure, creatures can regenerate 1 HP per turn.  More options makes for a more dynamic card.[/li]

Blessing:  Will upped cost 1 or bless more?

I would have it Bless more, see here (

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34667.msg467187#msg467187).[/li][/list]Holy Light:  Doesn't seem useful enough and 20hp seems too much considering most creatures don't have 20.

And Holy Light was useful before?  It was OP in a limited setting against Death and Darkness, but that's about it.[/li]

Luciferin:  It still gives bioluminescence to every creature without a skill?

Yes.[/li]

Reverse Time:  Way too expensive.

Destroying all buffs, losing a draw and having to replay the creature (if you can) for is too good.[/li]

Nightfall:  Would they remain on field after wearing the cloak effect off?

Yes, they would stack like other non-activated Artifacts.  The +1/+1 would not stack.[/li]

[plastiqe]

Some of these changes just seem like they don't fit too well and are extremely situational. (It's good to have vanilla attackers other than dragons, giving all creatures abilities would over-complicate things.) The X quanta costs, as well, just bug me and I think they'd be really hard to program.

Would Mummy be better as a plain 5/3?  Is Ghost of the Past a worse card because it has an extra effect when discarded?  Vanilla creatures are boring.  More (sp)wrinkles are better.

We have Mitosis that has a variable ability cost depending on the cost of the creature, why can't we have spells that do the same thing?  I'm not a programmer, but I bet it is do-able.

Bone Wall:  Death effect decks are already hard to set up. While I agree that the card is a little strong, I'd prefer fewer starting walls so it remains a strongly - affiliated card.

Blocking 7 attacks, big or small, for 7 is still really good.  Fewer starting walls instead is an option, but then I think it loses value as a stand alone shield.  I'm not against giving back the 2 charges per death ability with another Death card like I mentioned in post 2 with Bone Master.

Flooding:This seems like a nerf to me, which is definitely not needed for this card.

You and Jocko are right, Flooding is too weak.  Updated OP with new version that is an Aquatic Wings.

Ice Bolt:  It doesn't always freeze creatures, so why should it always freeze weapons?

More PC is needed, Water can have Weapons.

Wyrm:  Ever heard of Powerful Wyrms? It's the fastest deck in existence against AI3. I don't know why it isn't used more, but *Elite* Wyrm is balanced.

I haven't done the upgraded cards.  Wyrm could use some extra survivability and 1 less for Dive is not gamebreaking at 3 strength.

Scarab:  Please, no. Pharaoh decks were already strong, and got a huge buff with the SoR change. Scarab absolutely does not need a buff.

I'm not convinced on unupgraded Shards, or Shards in general for that matter.  I kind of like not having a bunch of powerful, cheap Other cards in PvP.  Maybe the Generator is too good and Pharaoh needs to be toned down?

Anyways thanks, I appreciate the constructive criticism.  Note that a lot of the ideas are from one thread or another and I can't claim this all as original thought, more like Forum Osmosis.  : P

[Jocko]

I don't think every card should have its ability, every card game has vanilla creatures, pure attackers.
About RT, i agree is too cheap, but 4-12 quanta for 1 creature and 1 turn of draw denial?

[plastiqe]

I don't think every card should have its ability, every card game has vanilla creatures, pure attackers.
About RT, i agree is too cheap, but 4-12 quanta for 1 creature and 1 turn of draw denial?

Losing buffs is the main concern with RT:
Mutations
Butterfly Effect
Vulture
Momentum
Otyugh
Gravity Pull
Graviton Fire Eater
Chimera
Acceleration
Plate Armor
Forest Spirit
Adrenaline
Mitosis
Fire Spirit
Lava Golem
Rage Potion
Steam Machine
Blessing
Luciferin
Crusader
Flying Weapon
Liquid Shadow
Not to mention saving your own creatures from things like Poison and Lobotomy.  And then there are those times when you don't have the quanta to pay for the creature a second time so throw in Immolation, Nova, Parallel Universe, Lycans, Gargoyles...

My change would be 1 + X for the casting cost of the creature being rewound.  So it's as little as 1 for 0 cost creatures to maximum 13 for a Golden Dragon.  At the very least there you're making the other player loose a turn picking up their Dragon again, then pay another 12 to get their Dragon back.  I could maybe see a casting cost formula of ( + 50% casting cost, rounded up) but people say that X is hard enough to code already.  : )

[The_Mormegil]

About time someone else did something like this. May I add it in this thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.0.html), as it's the purpose for which the thread was first started?

[plastiqe]

About time someone else did something like this. May I add it in this thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.0.html), as it's the purpose for which the thread was first started?

o.O a spot in the Metagame thread!  Yes you may, I'm honored.  It was actually reading and responding to your thread that got me thinking about making this one in the first place Morm.  : )

[The_Mormegil]

About time someone else did something like this. May I add it in this thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.0.html), as it's the purpose for which the thread was first started?

o.O a spot in the Metagame thread!  Yes you may, I'm honored.  It was actually reading and responding to your thread that got me thinking about making this one in the first place Morm.  : )

Haha. It was started as a place to put all these broader solutions, then kind of evolved into something broader. I'll add it right away. I'll use the 7 principles you listed in Ask the Old Trees thread as the description of your aims.

[Atico]

A lot of us say that Rewind is OP. But look at Lighting. This card can kill 70% creatures or more... Rewind didn't kill, but You lose one draw from deck. I think that it is balanced. If we talk about nerf Rewind we must nerf Lighting - and then I will agree with You Lighting and Rewind for 2 quantum, Shockwave for 1 (because there are a lot of creatures with 5HP and this card is less useful than Lighting).

I would like see this changes in Trainer. We seriously must talk about balance in game and I think that this topic is good place to do it. Now in game we have too much OP cards like Antimatter, BlackHole, FireLance, RageElixir and much more. And on the opposite a lot of stupid and not useful cards like HolyLight, Mercenary etc.
I never understood why Egg has got 0/1 stats and Ash 0/7 (now 0/5). I agree that Ash must have 0/1 stats. There are a lot of non balanced facts and my favourite is with FireLance.
Fire Lance cost 1, deals 3 damage and it is good when we compare it with DrainLife. But IceBolt also cost 1 and gives only 2 damage and sometimes congeal. Sorry, but it isn't fair. 1 damage for 10 quantum is a huge difference. FireLance kill 90% creatures with 10 quantum, IceBolt kill maybe half of them. So what is the sense of congeal from IceBolt, when FireLance destroy creature?
Shield reduce 1 damage and cost 1. Tower shield reduce 2 and cost 5! Acceleration gives 2/1 and cost 3. Overdrive cost more and it is upped card because it gives 1 attack more! And the same MUST be with FireLance. It gives 1 damage more so it MUST cost 2 or maybe 3, but not 1.
FireLance should cost 4/3 or 3/2 (we can discuss here), Drain Life 3/2, IceBolt 2/1. Then it will be better balanced. Sorry, but it is truth...

[Elite arbiter]

I would like to add:
Aflatoxin: Allow target HP Status. Then Aflatoxin will be more useful, especially in Nymph

Not bad, but I think it would need to be more unique than just a big poison if you targeted the player.

if you're going to do that, then perhaps having it give a status that puts a poison counter on the aflatoxin'd player each turn would suffice for being 'unique' enough. Non-stacking of course, IE two aflatoxins on a player wouldn't give two poison per turn, but the second aflatoxin would give another two flat poison.