Card Packs In the Bazar

[Marsu]

I don't exactly know where the difference is though. If you want, let's say, 1 SoSac now, you have to farm Bronze for easily an hour on average. It's also mainly random. Booster packs could be balanced in a way that they give the same amount of rares on average.
The thing that would change is that very new players could in deed not just build a specific deck (e.g. grab/shrieker rush) after an hour of playing, but would need way longer. I personally think this is a huge advantage, because deck building is what a game like this is about, and as everyone who played speedbuilding knows, limitations fuel your creativity.

[neuroleptics]

However, if the idea is to have packs as more or less exclusive source of cards in general/certain cards,
then you are proposing to change Elements economics completely. Hours and hours of mindless and
meaningless grinding will be ahead just to afford another 10 packs to finally get that damned 6th SoSac ...

I don't find that very thrilling to be honest.

can be frustrating when the 10 packs don't even have sosa . Anyhow, i don't see how to balance it between newbies and those who have all grind-able cards. I have all and i know how it feels like when all grinding gives you extra  to no other benefits. Booster packs may be made to actually have new art...cards with new design. Sounds better i think in this case. True enough, what you say is not wrong, you're concerned with the current mode of getting cards and how would it be if booster packs are introduced. I'm sure if it were to be introduced now, it will be like shards when they were 1st introduced, to which only and only until recently have been balanced a little. Sure, to incorporate something new needs  and modifications over  .

[Jangoo]

I don't exactly know where the difference is though. If you want, let's say, 1 SoSac now, you have to farm Bronze for easily an hour on average. It's also mainly random. Booster packs could be balanced in a way that they give the same amount of rares on average.

Some guy on Kong once got really mad about the new "free" pack-system in Tyrant. He actually calculated statistically that it would take him some 10 years to finally get every single card from that one pack because chances to win them all are so low. (You get to open like 3 packs/week)
Of course packs could be balanced any possible way to at least match the win-rates in Arena.
The difference is: In the Arena, you at least get to fiddle with the wheels to influence what you get. (Which I find very very thrilling btw  ) With packs you just spend electrum and have another "Crap! My 23rd SoG!"-experience.

The thing that would change is that very new players could in deed not just build a specific deck (e.g. grab/shrieker rush) after an hour of playing, but would need way longer. I personally think this is a huge advantage, because deck building is what a game like this is about, and as everyone who played speedbuilding knows, limitations fuel your creativity.

I guess this is the point where it really boils down to preference. Personally, I love about Elements that randomness is reduced severly.
That you can actually plan your account and what you want next and don't have to rely on luck. This is also the basis for all the community-events we are having:
How would you make deck-building tourneys with specific rulesets if players are constantly stuck with not having certain cards? Is a BL where "that one guy" constantly rules because he got lucky with the draw and can build a full Grab-deck really as cool as a BL where every participant might as well have a Grab-deck in his arsenal?

Anyhow, i don't see how to balance it between newbies and those who have all grind-able cards. I have all and i know how it feels like when all grinding gives you extra  to no other benefits.

Sounds like endgame-depression.  
A money-making companies answer to your "problem" would be to release some new, most likely game-breaking (read: OP) card-set which can only be obtained by buying this new pack, which will dominate the meta until enough toplevel gamers are bored again (read: Sales go down) ... I think it is this "thrill" to have to have the latest shit or persish that is associated with booster-packs by most people.

This would be very sad in Elements though: Nobody has to make money with this and Elements is very special in that old cards always have had their place. Of course the meta also changes with new cards but you know what I mean:
It all seems very balanced and fair.
Generally, I find it hard to accept that so many people constantly want new card-releases. Even though it is a CCG, Elements is somehow too well done to be flooded with new stuff all the time. Nobody ever complained that Chess doesnt get any new pieces right? Why can't people be satisfied with the well rounded game as it stands? It's like rock-paper-scissors with occasional additions ... so, don't expect a flood of novelties.

Booster packs may be made to actually have new art...cards with new design. Sounds better i think in this case.

An excellent suggestion! It is something special to keep endgamers busy and interested while not implying all the hick-hack that usually goes along with pack-systems containing game-changing cards.

[Drake_XIV]

What if the packs were not packs of cards but... packs of spins? 

[Marvaddin]

I would like this. Maybe even cards + spins.

Of course the spins need a base deck to select cards. Maybe we can have "spin cards" like AI3 Spin, FG Spin, AI4 Spin, Bronze Arena Spin, etc. Anything from AI2 to Platinum is ok to me. I can think about 2 ways to put it working:

1) After the normal spins (you would see which cards were selected, or at least some of them), you could use another Spin card to have + 1 total spin in the 3 wheels.

2) After any spin you could use the Spin card to change just 1 wheel, like what happens in Arena special spin.

[OdinVanguard]

Who most wants random scattered cards? Probably newbies.

The correct answer is: profit oriented companies.

The whole idea of booster packs was invented to create an easily marketable steady income stream
from kids that desperately want to get certain cards and (since the statistical chance to actually
get them is always against them) constantly have to go and buy new packs.

Packs fit in with random corporate trading card games that determine the skill of a player mostly
by the size of his wallet. However, in a free online game that doesn't even have a trading system,
like Elements, this would just be a FART.

Elements is about deck-building and playing in an environment where everybody has similar chances,
where the game is highly well balanced and adhering to strategic rules, sort of like in chess.
Being able to directly buy just about any card in the Bazaar is a vital part of this environment and
there are many people here who think that there shouldn't even be Rares.
Why would you want to add to this debate by introducing some crappy, random, pseudo-coporate pack-system?

If this idea reads as "Bazaar as it is + Packs" it's most likely useless.
If this idea reads as "Packs instead of Bazaar" it couldn't possibly be more misguided.

Yes, there are some players that dislike rares because they want every player to be able to put together every build possible... but then there are also some (myself being one of them) that think Zanz actually has a good point that having rares that not every player has access too, is a GOOD thing. The fact that some players may not have, say, a Green Nymph means that some deck builds and strategies will be unique.

Bazaar + packs is not useless in the case where they provide an additional area to disperse cards that are either unobtainable or difficult to obtain in any other way. E.g. Like the oracle.

What if the packs were not packs of cards but... packs of spins?

This seems like it could be a very fun way to enhance the experience. It would also give players a little more control which would help mitigate the frustration someone mentioned earlier about having a "pure random" pull from something that you have to work hard to obtain. I really like the idea.

So here is one other idea to make them a nice parallel to the Oracle.
-Give players a once a day specialty pack that contains more spins than the standard "buyable" packs.
-Make these same packs (or similar ones) obtainable as a reward choice from pvp events. (For instance, nymphs could be available from these packs but not packs obtained in other ways)
-These same packs could also be used as incentive for making well liked arena decks
e.g. give out a handful a week to owners of arena decks that get the most "thumbs up" for that week.

The first makes packs a good parallel for oracle spins
The second keeps strong incentive for PvP events
The third will encourage players to do there best to make good arena decks rather than just "throwing in the towel" and copying one from the forum decks section... or not even trying altogether.