The Witch's Game 4

[EvaRia]

I think it was just worded badly. "Extra pair" could mean extra stairs that make one pair of stairs on that cart.

Unless I misunderstand the layout of the train.

[Submachine]

Not all missing people are locked in the closets downstairs.

I give you the following, individual white truths:

Jack is hidden in one of the storage closets.

Betty is hidden in one of the storage closets.

John is hidden in one of the storage closets.

Shandelise is hidden in one of the storage closets.

Patty is hidden in one of the storage closets.

I didn't list Damien's dead body, because he was last seen in the 5th cart.

[dawn to dusk]

The diner's cart has two staircases. One with a glass door which we never enter. Assumedly this leads to a passenger area but we don't really know.

The other stairs are taped over and lead to the storage area where we find a key and a body?

But Kuro said "pair of stairs", not just staircase. And said that one cart (obviously the diner cart) has 2 "pairs". Maybe he just misworded it...

If I understand it correctly, the layout of the train carriages is that there is a flight of stairs at the back and the front of the carriage. Therefore, there is one entry and one exit to each carriage. This creates the following shape:

    __
-<__>-

Badly done, but still...

[Kuroaitou]

Okay, first off:

The missing people were thrown out of the OPENING created by Ivan's crowbar in the engine room.

HAPPY?

Much more clear, but still:

It is impossible to physically throw someone UPWARDS out of the roof opening created by Ivan's crowbar in the engine room.

EvaRia - you're too aggressive for me, but alas, here we go. >.<

Tell me more about this, so I know where you're going with this one.

At some point when I was not there to witness him, Zack ingested a substance that is poisonous to humans. There's nothing strange about his situation at all!

But aha! Zack did not ingest anything while you were not there to witness him.

Anyone without an alibi could have entered the drivers cart, killed the three people inside with any conventional weapon, smashed the windows, then left without me noticing. I see nothing strange about this at all!

Hm...

The door to the driver's cart requires a conductor's key to enter.

The person who had murdered the three people inside did not have any key on him.

...and because I'm nice:

The weapon used to kill the three people inside is not something you would find 'conventional' (i.e. - not a knife or a gun).

Any of the missing people could be trapped or hiding in one of the carts that I have not personally searched. There's nothing strange about this at all!

Too generic of an answer really, but...

I give you the following, individual white truths:

Jack is hidden in one of the storage closets.
Betty is hidden in one of the storage closets.
John is hidden in one of the storage closets.
Shandelise is hidden in one of the storage closets.
Patty is hidden in one of the storage closets.

Fair enough, I have no counter for some of these:

Shandelise was the one who ripped the signs over the closed off stairwell to enter the bottom floor of the diner's cart.
Using her diner's room/conductor key, she unlocked the doors for some of the storage closets and allowed the old couple, Betty and John, to hide separately in two closets and lock themselves from the inside. She then locked herself in another closet storage space.
 

However:

Jack is not hiding in a storage closet.

Patty is not hiding in a storage closet.

I request an acknowledgement of this statement in black:
"While I was sitting in the 4th Cart upstairs, it was not possible for a person in the later carts to pass into the earlier carts, or vice versa, without me noticing their existence."

A minor edit.

While you were sitting in the 4th Cart upstairs, it was not possible for a person in the later carts to pass into the earlier carts, or vice versa, without you noticing their existence on the top floor.

I then move into the diner's cart again. At this point, things had happened in the diner's cart without me noticing. I can white truth this.

It's possible for any of the mysterious events in the diner's cart to have been instigated by any person who was on a later cart than me for the entire time I was sitting down in Cart 4. Any person who I did not have direct line of sight during this period had more than enough time to cause any kind of commotion. Nothing strange here, as far as I see.

I need more clarification on this, but for the time being:

The commotion in the diner's cart was not directly instigated by any person.

I then move to the second cart downstairs. I request clarification - Is this physically possible without me moving upstairs again? I'm not 100% sure on the layout of the train here.

I'll reuse a previous dark-truth.

All the carts are connected via doors for the top floor, but not the bottom (the 1st and 2nd carts are disconnected on the bottom only).


...god I hope I didn't mess this one up so quickly.  Dx

[EvaRia]

It doesn't matter if I was watching or not. Zack ingested a poisonous substance, and that is what made him require medical attention.

Possibly that juice? It could have been used as a distraction to pull everyone downstairs.

All the carts are connected via doors for the top floor, but not the bottom (the 1st and 2nd carts are disconnected on the bottom only).

I take this to mean that you can move from bottom floor to bottom floor between all carts except the VIP and driver's carts.

This means that any person can move to any other point on the train without me noticing. In otherwords, if someone is not in the same room as me, they have no alibi in the story.

Any person without an alibi could have moved to the driver's cart without me noticing. They then entered through the unlocked door, killed the three people inside with a makeshift weapon (If not conventional than I assume it would have to be something random they had access to that would work), smashed the windows, then left the train without me noticing.

The door could be unlocked for various reasons. Either it was accidentally left unlocked, or one of the people inside the room let the person in.

We know this door was unlocked at some point or we could not have gotten in to the driver's cart.

I see nothing strange about the missing people. Unless there are strange circumstances behind their disappearance, which I don't see, there are myriad reasons that they could have gone missing.

I will use the Devil's Proof! Unless you explain to me in black why there shouldn't be missing people involved in the story, I am not obligated to explain their disappearance as a player of the human side!

[Kuroaitou]

It doesn't matter if I was watching or not. Zack ingested a poisonous substance, and that is what made him require medical attention.

Very well then.

Zack did not ingest anything poisonous.

He was cursed, I tell you!

I take this to mean that you can move from bottom floor to bottom floor between all carts except the VIP and driver's carts.

This means that any person can move to any other point on the train without me noticing. In otherwords, if someone is not in the same room as me, they have no alibi in the story.

Any person without an alibi could have moved to the driver's cart without me noticing. They then entered through the unlocked door, killed the three people inside with a makeshift weapon (If not conventional than I assume it would have to be something random they had access to that would work), smashed the windows, then left the train without me noticing.

The door could be unlocked for various reasons. Either it was accidentally left unlocked, or one of the people inside the room let the person in.

We know this door was unlocked at some point or we could not have gotten in to the driver's cart.

To the initial non-white statement: I won't deny you that.

However:
No one inside the driver's cart would not willingly let anyone in who is not part of the train staff. They would also not leave it unlocked accidentally to avoid someone breaking in.

At least 1 death occurred in the driver's cart while the door was completely closed.

It was teleportation, I tell you!

I see nothing strange about the missing people. Unless there are strange circumstances behind their disappearance, which I don't see, there are myriad reasons that they could have gone missing.

I will use the Devil's Proof! Unless you explain to me in black why there shouldn't be missing people involved in the story, I am not obligated to explain their disappearance as a player of the human side!

There were 18 people on the train; unless you account for what happened to all the people that entered the train, you are, by definition, allowing the Warlock to have free reign into being able to claim that his magic was so powerful that he was able to banish and completely remove them from the realm of existence without killing them. By not solving the mysteries of why they are missing (and/or why they haven't left the train considering it was out of control), you are implying that their status is strange by their very nature.

>.> I get the feeling that the black truth above doesn't do you justice Eva, but that's all I got.

[EvaRia]

I'm not sure I like it yet.

I'll let you "build your realm", young warlock, as you seem lost in the ways of the Witch's Game. So dance with me! Answer my steps in turn and you shall find your way.

At any point where I was not there to witness them, Jack and Patty could have left the moving train, whether forcibly or by their own will.

[Kuroaitou]

I imagine most witches would be incredibly pissed that I'm pissing all over their game at this moment. :X Let me remedy that.

At any point where I was not there to witness them, Jack and Patty could have left the moving train, whether forcibly or by their own will.

Unless someone left the train via the Engine Room (6th cart), any other person would have spotted someone leaving the train via a passenger or bathroom window and told the officers/train staff/any other person what happened.

Jack never entered Cart 5.

Patty never returned to Cart 5 after checking for tickets.

[EvaRia]

It's possible that I and the police failed to search the train thoroughly. Patty and Jack were simply hiding in one of the rooms we looked through and we missed their presence.

 Alternately, they could have been actively avoiding us, positioning themselves and moving from room to room in such a way that we wouldn't run into them.

[Kuroaitou]

It's possible that I and the police failed to search the train thoroughly. Patty and Jack were simply hiding in one of the rooms we looked through and we missed their presence.

 Alternately, they could have been actively avoiding us, positioning themselves and moving from room to room in such a way that we wouldn't run into them.

I'll repeat a previous black truth for the first statement, and give you a new one for the second:

Not all missing people are hiding intentionally.

A train conductor would not be actively avoiding or hiding from someone unless they perceive the person to be a threat.

Are you implying that you're the one who caused the crimes?

[EvaRia]

Better, but you need to be tighter than that!

Regardless of intent, it's still possible for Patty and Jack to exist in one of the rooms we looked through and we missed their presence.

Regardless of the actual source of the crimes, it's still possible for Patty and Jack to perceive us as a possible culprit and thus a threat. Alternately, they could have something else they wish to hide and did not wish to be seen, viewing any persons as possible threats to their secrets or safety.

Regardless of whether poison was actually ingested, Zack was poisoned. Perhaps he inhaled it or had it injected.
If not poison, it could be one of numerous documented medical diseases. Under strange circumstances, it could also be a new disease that we don't know about.
If not a disease, he could be faking his illness for some reason. I don't need to explain the reason!

[Submachine]

Some parts of the story seem to fit a theory:

You looked back at the vagabond, noticing his plea attempt on a college student, but instead of withdrawing, the student instead decided to offer him some money, and the homeless fellow bowed repeatedly and took the money.

the collision between a somewhat scrawny man with a suitcase and the student; the latter apologizing profusely and quickly gathering his dropped items.

you noticed a shadow move beyond the train, but maybe it was your imagination.

entered the train through the 5th cart's door and immediately took notice of a homeless man stepping out of the bathroom.

I think that the college student dropped something accidentally when he collided with the businessman and didn't pick it up in his confusion. The homeless man was grateful for the money, so he wanted to return back the student's item, but he had no ticket to travel legally on the train. So he sneaked up beyond the train to enter in the engine room and we saw his shadow. Both the engine room and the 5th passenger cart(where the student sat down) was in the back of the train, and they were coming out from the same cart in the end of the story, so it all seems to fit.

However, let's do a conspiracy aswell. It's also possible that the student was killing the people on the train, and when the homeless Ivan found him with a gun over Damien's dead body (who he shot), he shot himself to repel suspicion from himself and threw the gun away. Ivan in his confusion picked up the gun and this is where the policemen came in.

Alternatively, it's also possible that when the student gave money to Ivan at the station, he was hiring him as a mercenary to do his evil bidding.