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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229605#msg229605
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2010, 10:54:23 pm »
Ninja'd hard by Zblader.
Great Analysis.
I agree that a 2 damage skill should be worth around +2 quanta when on a creature.

Name:
I think that Mountain Lion would fit the art and coloration better than a Tiger

Elemental Loyalty:
Seems appropriate with Pulverizer in te same element.
I ninja'd someone on a forum for the first time ever.  YAY!  :D And thanks Oldtrees, it wouldn't have been possible without you article :) .

Earthelement, if look at my first post with the calculations you'll find a link to a Card Design article that gives you the basics.
Here it is again :
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16655.0.html

Yes, i know that, but i don't understand anything from there...  :o

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229607#msg229607
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2010, 10:58:27 pm »
Compressing that entire article into a few phrases is hard, but I'll give it my best shot.

Overall a creature's cost value should be determined from the following formula.

Creature Value [ie Casting Cost] = Attack + Skill Value + HP modifier + Elemental bonus 
(Special thanks to phantom fox and Oldtrees)
Attack: What it says.
Skill Value: Obviously some skills are more deadly than others.  The chart is pretty long, but overall the better at control/more beneficial a card is, the higher value.
HP Modifier: above 5 HP gets you a penalty for lots of HP.  0 Hp decreases cost.
Elemental Bonuses: There just seem to be some random bonuses around in element that apply to most cards:
Fire gets 1 free attack plus 1 per 9 cost.
Earth gets 1 free HP.
Aether, Life and Light get -1 cost for their creatures.
Creature value: Add all the above together and voila, you get a cost. 
If you're confused, simply look at the creature value and adjust accordingly along with any recommendations by the post-er.

Uppercut

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229609#msg229609
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2010, 10:59:53 pm »
Upped's cost could still probably go up. I'm not liking the flavor of the card but thats just taste and not a balance issue.

Are we still using that horribly out of date chart that says a 4/5 burrow should be free?

EarthElement

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229610#msg229610
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2010, 11:01:14 pm »
Compressing that entire article into a few phrases is hard, but I'll give it my best shot.

Overall a creature's cost value should be determined from the following formula.

Creature Value [ie Casting Cost] = Attack + Skill Value + HP modifier + Elemental bonus 
(Special thanks to phantom fox and Oldtrees)
Attack: What it says.
Skill Value: Obviously some skills are more deadly than others.  The chart is pretty long, but overall the better at control/more beneficial a card is, the higher value.
HP Modifier: above 5 HP gets you a penalty for lots of HP.  0 Hp decreases cost.
Elemental Bonuses: There just seem to be some random bonuses around in element that apply to most cards:
Fire gets 1 free attack plus 1 per 9 cost.
Earth gets 1 free HP.
Aether, Life and Light get -1 cost for their creatures.
Creature value: Add all the above together and voila, you get a cost. 
If you're confused, simply look at the creature value and adjust accordingly along with any recommendations by the post-er.
Hmm.... Yea it have sense now!  ;D
Thanks!  :)

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229612#msg229612
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2010, 11:04:22 pm »
Here is the quick explanation of the calculations Zblader used.

1) Start with the attack of you creature.
3 attack
2) Add 1 quanta per point of attack
(Fire does this differently)
3 :earth
3) Move onto HP.(Earth does this differently)
0 HP is worth -2 quanta
1-5 HP is worth 0 quanta
6-7 HP is worth 1 quanta
8-9 HP is worth 2 quanta
10+ HP is worth 3 quanta
4) Consider the Skill value. There are 2 lists of skills that have already be assigned values. You can try to deduce the value of a new skill by comparison, guesswork or further theory.
5) Expensive skill and cheap skills modify the cost.
Creatures:
1 quanta skill: +0
2-3 quanta skill: -1
4 quanta skill: -2

Permanent:
1 quanta skill: +1
2 quanta skill: +0
3 quanta skill: -1
6) Cards that require 2 types of quanta cost 1 less.
7) Aether, Life and Light creatures cost 1 less
8 ) Add all these values up.
9) Upgraded cards cost 1-2 less than there calculated value.

@Uppercut. Yes we are still using the formula because no better formula has been worked out and presented in sufficient detail. Yet. (Zblader and you both seem interested enough to try to improve upon the old.)

Using  :fire again. 1 attack costs 1, +1 for being a fire creature = 2|x for 1. Add burrow +0 to cost, it being off element = -1 for cost. 2|5 for with burrow for free? Upgraded you could go 3 cost = 4|5, + 0 for burrow, -1 for off color, so 2 cost, -2 for being upgraded = 4|5 burrow for free.
So a 2|x for :fire or a 1|x Burrowed for :earth? (If a skill is not intended for use then it does not count toward the balance of the card)
Upgraded (I note how you instinctively went for -2 when only half the cards do so)
4|x for :fire or 2|x Burrowed for :earth?

I remember doing this to PhantomFox when he first made his attempt at a standard. It is really useful. Please keep the examples coming. (To clarify the emotional content: I am pleased that you are helping test the formula. Thank you.)
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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229613#msg229613
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2010, 11:04:35 pm »
Upped's cost could still probably go up. I'm not liking the flavor of the card but thats just taste and not a balance issue.

Are we still using that horribly out of date chart that says a 4/5 burrow should be free?
Hey, I'm hoping that you have enough sense to adjust as accordingly.  But yes, the majority of this is based of the chart, with a few common sense edits.

Hmm.... Yea it have sense now!  ;D
Thanks!  :)
You're welcome. Also, like Oldtrees said, I think you need to change the name, you basically took the earth nymph's name and stuck "tiger" on it.  Be creative, like "Sandscratch Tiger", "Gaia Tiger", something along those lines.  Hope this helps.

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229619#msg229619
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2010, 11:10:22 pm »
Thank you guys! It really helps me. Now it will be easier.  :D
And ideas with names are nice i will think about it, thanks. :)



Mountain Lion and Mountain King will be good names? ;>

Offline Wizardcat

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229627#msg229627
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2010, 11:21:57 pm »
Pretty certain that it's Air that gets a cost reduction, not Aether.

On the card... I like it (can never have enough felines), but feel that it would be relatively unused compared to the shrieker. But that's due to its incredible cost-damage ratio when evolved from a graboid, not due to this card.
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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229633#msg229633
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2010, 11:27:53 pm »
Pretty certain that it's Air that gets a cost reduction, not Aether.

On the card... I like it (can never have enough felines), but feel that it would be relatively unused compared to the shrieker. But that's due to its incredible cost-damage ratio when evolved from a graboid, not due to this card.
It was Air in the Old PhantomFox version. The new version included upgraded cards and found that Air did not have a cost reduction while Aether did.

Graboid is OP. Once Graboid is fixed then this is no longer a concern.

On the topic of felines though: Do you know of a better feline for the name than a Tiger?
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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229642#msg229642
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2010, 11:34:44 pm »
It was Air in the Old PhantomFox version. The new version included upgraded cards and found that Air did not have a cost reduction while Aether did.
Ah. I should keep up to date on that kind of thing.

On the topic of felines though: Do you know of a better feline for the name than a Tiger?
I'd go with the cougar, also known as the mountain lion. It prefers rockier habitats than the tiger does, which tend towards the more forested areas.
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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229644#msg229644
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2010, 11:36:47 pm »
Pretty certain that it's Air that gets a cost reduction, not Aether.

On the card... I like it (can never have enough felines), but feel that it would be relatively unused compared to the shrieker. But that's due to its incredible cost-damage ratio when evolved from a graboid, not due to this card.
It was Air in the Old PhantomFox version. The new version included upgraded cards and found that Air did not have a cost reduction while Aether did.

Graboid is OP. Once Graboid is fixed then this is no longer a concern.

On the topic of felines though: Do you know of a better feline for the name than a Tiger?
Noooo, I don't wanna see nerfed Graboids!  They're so cute... and cuddly.... and awesome.... and.... and... nah, jk.

However with the name, it should be tiger or jaguar.  Tigers because I feel I get the most claws emphasis from them, and Jaguar because the ability it sort of like "hunting" the target creature.  Plus jaguar sounds cool.

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Re: Auburn Tiger | Earth Tiger https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18009.msg229645#msg229645
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2010, 11:36:59 pm »
Beaten to it, but flavor wise I think tigers are very  :life. Cougars I could see being either   :earth or  :life but mainly because I think of most animals as fitting into life.

 

anything
blarg: