Mimic | Mimic

[choongmyoung]

Trick question, what should happen if I got in my hand an upgraded mimic right above an unupgraded one?

Just like the the unupped Mimic being the first card, dead cards until you discard one.

[jawdirk]

This is definitely an interesting card idea. Let's try to figure out what the cost should be. Here is the typical situation that we have to balance:

Mimic, Entropy Pendulum, Werewolf

Then mimic becomes a choice of a pendulum or werewolf. In the early game, you play it as pendulum, and get your werewolf out on turn 1. In the later game, you play 2 werewolves for twice the power. For a typical deck, that will be about a 40% chance of getting this choice. This is a form of quanta acceleration because mimic can be considered to be 40% of a quanta producer in the early game when you most need it, and 0% quanta producer in the later game when you have enough quanta.

We also have to consider the value of subverting the 6-card limit. There are many decks that would benefit immensely from this. Consider an improved mutation deck with dramatically higher chance of casting 2 supernovas in a row. Consider a wise-vu deck with dramatically higher chance of loading 2+ SoW onto a deja-vu. Finally consider the amazing regularity this card would add to many OTK decks. You now have up to 6 cards that can either act as some quanta producer to get you the quanta you need, or as any of the doubled cards in your OTK combo.

So I see a few possibilities:
1. High entropy casting cost (similar to TU, say  6 ) which forces you to try to mimic powerful cards.
2. Something like a cost of + X, with X the casting cost of the mimicked card.
3. Add the stipulation that a Mimic never generates quanta (and it has the casting cost of the mimicked card).

This last choice would still leave mimic as a powerful multiplying card, but would force the deck builder to support it with a normal quanta supply. Hopefully the likelihood of getting a nice choice on how to cast mimic would be balanced by the risk of mimic multiplying a dead card.

[choongmyoung]

This is definitely an interesting card idea. Let's try to figure out what the cost should be. Here is the typical situation that we have to balance:

Mimic, Entropy Pendulum, Werewolf

Then mimic becomes a choice of a pendulum or werewolf. In the early game, you play it as pendulum, and get your werewolf out on turn 1. In the later game, you play 2 werewolves for twice the power. For a typical deck, that will be about a 40% chance of getting this choice. This is a form of quanta acceleration because mimic can be considered to be 40% of a quanta producer in the early game when you most need it, and 0% quanta producer in the later game when you have enough quanta.

We also have to consider the value of subverting the 6-card limit. There are many decks that would benefit immensely from this. Consider an improved mutation deck with dramatically higher chance of casting 2 supernovas in a row. Consider a wise-vu deck with dramatically higher chance of loading 2+ SoW onto a deja-vu. Finally consider the amazing regularity this card would add to many OTK decks. You now have up to 6 cards that can either act as some quanta producer to get you the quanta you need, or as any of the doubled cards in your OTK combo.

So I see a few possibilities:
1. High entropy casting cost (similar to TU, say  6 ) which forces you to try to mimic powerful cards.
2. Something like a cost of + X, with X the casting cost of the mimicked card.
3. Add the stipulation that a Mimic never generates quanta (and it has the casting cost of the mimicked card).

This last choice would still leave mimic as a powerful multiplying card, but would force the deck builder to support it with a normal quanta supply. Hopefully the likelihood of getting a nice choice on how to cast mimic would be balanced by the risk of mimic multiplying a dead card.

Mimic working as Nova|SN should be discussed about the Singularity problem.

/

I sent a PM to Xenocidus about the coding problem, but I don't think it is possible to code like <the cost is same with the card below Mimic>.
As I understood, If the "cost" problem works as an effect of the card like SoSac(cost=1 / effect=every non-:death quanta), it is not possible to code Mimic because EtG first checks if the card can be played or not based only on the cost of the card, which is zero.

So assume I have Golden Hourglass below Mimic and 2 quanta left. When I try to use Mimic(zero cost),
1. EtG checks if I can cast it
2. I can cast it because I have more than 0 quanta
3. I cast Mimic
4. A Golden Hourglass appears in my field
5. as an effect of Mimic, 4 is subtracted
6. I have -2 quanta now

However, the hope is that actually in some desync error there sometimes appears a weird Aether Pendulum mimicking a cost of the card below(but cannot played).
On the other situation, there sometimes appears a card which works EXACTLY like Mimic. (The only difference is that it appears as not Mimic but the actual card below)
That is, the cost is not treated as the effect of Mimic but the cost(like 4 ) actually appears next to Mimic in your hand.

[Hyroen]

choongmyoung, I have to be honest with you.

I can't say this to too many card designers but this is a very innovative mechanic and I'm impressed. While the mechanic itself seems to have been an idea and then just haphazardly placed in Entropy, it leads me to ask why it should in the element in the first place, however the fact that there have been --many-- card ideas and (I think) none with this mechanic goes to show that you have clearly thought outside the box, instead of recycling old mechanics in new combinations.

*hi 5s*

Oh, and +rep for you good sir.

[OldTrees]

If we want to have it cost the same as the card it copies and there are coding issues with doing so directly, then we can have it become a copy of the card above/below it when it is cast for 0 . Mimic leaves the hand and is replaced in the hand by a copy of the card above/below.

[choongmyoung]

choongmyoung, I have to be honest with you.

I can't say this to too many card designers but this is a very innovative mechanic and I'm impressed. While the mechanic itself seems to have been an idea and then just haphazardly placed in Entropy, it leads me to ask why it should in the element in the first place, however the fact that there have been --many-- card ideas and (I think) none with this mechanic goes to show that you have clearly thought outside the box, instead of recycling old mechanics in new combinations.

*hi 5s*

Oh, and +rep for you good sir.

xD

If we want to have it cost the same as the card it copies and there are coding issues with doing so directly, then we can have it become a copy of the card above/below it when it is cast for 0 . Mimic leaves the hand and is replaced in the hand by a copy of the card above/below.

Working exactly same. Brilliant idea!
"Mimic becomes a copy of the card above|below" (Seems aetherish lol)
Well, I might update OP after Xenocidus' reply.

[Pineapple]

Yeah, I think mechanic and card name already seemed Aether-y to me before; using the word "copy" just makes this more apparent
Any reason you chose Entropy?

[choongmyoung]

Yeah, I think mechanic and card name already seemed Aether-y to me before; using the word "copy" just makes this more apparent
Any reason you chose Entropy?

Unstable Shapeshifter came to my mind lol
Mimic can be anything, never know what it will eventually become.

[choongmyoung]

After some serious thinking, here's some of the interactions

Original = Acts exactly like a card below Mimic
Suggestion (by OldTrees) = Mimic becomes a copy of the card below

Above<==>Below in your hand


Original - You can't cast it. It's a dead card.
Suggestion - You can still play it, but you get nothing.


Original - the hand curse is a part of SN's effect. Mimic acts exactly like SN, so casting Mimic should curse the hand.
Suggestion - You get SN. You cast SN. Of course the hand is cursed.

(Fractal Frogs)
Possible combos are:
Want second Fractal? Mimic-Fractal-Frogs-Aether Tower
             6 Frogs, +1 , +1 Aether Tower, 1 Fractal left
Want more Frogs? Fractal-Mimic-Frogs-Aether Tower
             7 Frogs, +1 , +1 Aether tower (which is identical to the case when you didn't have Mimic there)
Not enough quanta? Fractal-Frogs-Mimic-Aether Tower-Aether Tower
             6 Frogs, +2 , +2 Aether Tower

Probably the most interesting part
Original - They are dead cards. You cannot duplicate Ulitharid nor Lava Destroyer.
Suggestion - If you want to duplicate Ulitharid, use the upped Mimic. You'll get an unupped Mimic in that place. You get an extra Ulitharid when you use the new unupped Mimic. If you want to duplicate Lava Destroyer, use the unupped Mimic first. You did a tricky work, good job

Comment: if this is added to the game, this is the only way to duplicate a spell or a permanent.



I think OldTrees' suggestion is better. Time to update OP, but wait!
By balancing, 12 Phase Shield / 12 Silence / 12 Nightmare / 12 SoSac will be OP imo. It needs a cost but not (in-element with Phase Shield and Silence).
Maybe 1 cost? Need more opinions..

[jawdirk]

I sent a PM to Xenocidus about the coding problem, but I don't think it is possible to code like <the cost is same with the card below Mimic>.

Mimic could be a spell that adds a copy of the card above/below it to your hand. Its cost could be 0 or  . It loses some of the flavor of the card perhaps, but it would probably be very easy to implement.

[choongmyoung]

I sent a PM to Xenocidus about the coding problem, but I don't think it is possible to code like <the cost is same with the card below Mimic>.

Mimic could be a spell that adds a copy of the card above/below it to your hand. Its cost could be 0 or  . It loses some of the flavor of the card perhaps, but it would probably be very easy to implement.

Same as OldTrees suggested.

[andretimpa]

The new added card should remain in the same position or go to the bottom of your hand?