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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533380#msg533380
« on: August 15, 2012, 04:17:34 pm »
NAME:
Blood Pillar
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
0
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Converts 3 HP to 2 Blood () per turn.
0 Transfuse: Pay your next spell or skill cost in .
NAME:
Blood Tower
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
0
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Converts 3 HP to 2 Blood()
per turn and when played.
0 Transfuse: Pay your next spell or skill cost in .

ART:
OdinVanguard
-Special thanks to EmeraldTiger for the Blood Mark artwork. - - BloodSymbolOnImgur
IDEA:
OdinVanguard
-Original inspiration was Odideph's "The Blood Price" Card.
-Special thanks to EmeraldTiger, OldTrees, and Ruarte for help in mechanics considerations
NOTES:
The original inspiration was Odideph's  Blood Price Card
Thematic credit goes to Odideph

This is my attempt to make a pillar with the same theme and make the mechanic more tangible for use elsewhere.

The idea is simple: A pillar which drains the owner's health and stores it as blood.
The blood can then be used to power spells and skills in place of quanta.
Additionally, any spell or skill cost that involves hitpoint loss will drain blood instead at a rate of 1 blood to 2 HP.

The blood will be stored on the pillar / tower stack itself

If the stack is completely destroyed, the blood is lost

If a pillar is stolen, the opponent gets one pillar, but no blood gets transferred / lost (unless they steal the last one)

If a spell / skill costs more than the amount of blood stored, the balance will be deducted from quanta as normal.

If the player doesn't have enough combined blood + quanta, the spell / skill cannot be used (as normal)

When activated, the transfuse effect will highlight the players quanta pool in red to let them know they are paying in blood. The effect wears off at the start of next turn.

If the effect is left running and a skill auto-activates to draw quanta, the blood is drawn instead (e.g. dissipation shield would draw blood before :entropy if this is left running)

Help balancing of HP per Blood is welcome. For reference, it was suggested that 1  :underworld = 4 HP ... in the case of the "Blood Price" card, it is a 1  :underworld = 3 HP ratio.
This pillar would give a 2  :underworld = 3 HP ratio, but at the cost of needing time to build up (like normal quanta).
The pillar buildup mechanic is intended to:
1) Slow use of very large cards early on (as was a problem with Blood Price)
2) Give a way to store up power for later (again to help deal with the inverted casting pace that HP based mechanics encourage)
3) Provide a "pseudo-quanta" type for thematic use under various elements

---This will be part of a series of cards


-Lore:
"By the Blood the rite is complete,
by the Blood the price is payed,
by the Blood our will shall be done.
For those who have the will to pay the price,
let nothing be denied."
-Inscription on an ancient Blood Tower, uncovered during Elements Era - 1.3.1
SERIES:

« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 08:14:22 am by Annele »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
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Offline Dhanzig

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533389#msg533389
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 04:45:20 pm »
Very, VERY interesting!  Too bad Elements isn't like magic where you can just slip a piece of paper in the card sleeve and try new things out!! ;)
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533396#msg533396
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 04:58:45 pm »
3) Provide a "pseudo-quanta" type for thematic use under various elements
Pseudoquanta has a specific meaning. It means an alternate cost mechanic that uses existing types of quanta. (Ex: Mark quanta)

PS: Why did you change blood from hp costs to a 13th quanta pool (despite being held in a pillar stack)?
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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533406#msg533406
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 05:10:14 pm »
How would it work with a upgraded split [Both pillars and towers in a deck]?

Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533413#msg533413
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 05:38:45 pm »
3) Provide a "pseudo-quanta" type for thematic use under various elements
Pseudoquanta has a specific meaning. It means an alternate cost mechanic that uses existing types of quanta. (Ex: Mark quanta)

PS: Why did you change blood from hp costs to a 13th quanta pool (despite being held in a pillar stack)?
Blood essentially is hp cost since it gets generated by draining HP... The pillar mechanics and pool like storage help overcome the problems assosciated with pacing HP costs. Namely, if a card or ability can pull from player HP directly, it encourages high costs to be played right at the start of the game. This is the reverse of current game pacing which restricts high costs to late game.
E.g. if something costs 20 HP it is easier to play in the start of a match, when the player has HP to spare, than at the end when they may not even have 20 HP left.
The idea is that the "Blood" pool will speed up pace at the cost of HP without inverting it.

Essentially, the pillars convert the player's HP into  :underworld in a controled manner so that the player can't simply throw all their HP into a major spell immediately, but they will get access faster than with standard pillars (at the cost of effectively spending HP).

In a sense, the "Blood" pool is equivalent to  :underworld rather than a new quanta type, since it is usable to pay any one quanta cost.

Localizing the quanta like "Blood" onto cards rather than in a pool will also have other ramifications (e.g. bypasses typical quanta control, but is highly vulnerable to PC ... and maybe CC if creature versions are made). Further, if players have multiple cards storing Blood, their "pool" is fragmented. This would mean that even if they had enough altogether to cast a large spell, they would not be able to do so unless the amount needed resided in the same card... (but doing so leaves them more vulnerable to disruption if the card is destroyed, stunned, etc.)

...The fact that Blood must reside in a card will also mean that there will be a new mechanic "niche" for moving counters / Blood from one card to another

Lastly, since Blood resides on a card like a counter, it could be used in other areas as well (particularly if cards are present to move Blood from card to card). E.g. there could be creatures that have att|hp that scales with the amount of Blood on the card.

"Blood" then, becomes more of a "Resource" than an actual quanta type
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 05:48:41 pm by OdinVanguard »
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533415#msg533415
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 05:46:04 pm »
How would it work with a upgraded split [Both pillars and towers in a deck]?

If a player has both, then each builds up its own pool. This would have the benefit of making it harder to destroy the players supply, but casting large spells would be more difficult.
... Having a card / mechanic to move counters (e.g. Blood) from one card to another could be quite useful here.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533419#msg533419
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 05:54:45 pm »
It is the greatest mystery of all...
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533421#msg533421
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 05:56:11 pm »
Hmmm... name is taken already...
Would "Sanguine Pillar | Sanguine Tower" work instead?
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533433#msg533433
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 06:07:04 pm »
Hmmm... name is taken already...
Would "Sanguine Pillar | Sanguine Tower" work instead?
You don't have to change the name if both counterparts to this card are in the Archive.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533450#msg533450
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 06:23:10 pm »
3) Provide a "pseudo-quanta" type for thematic use under various elements
Pseudoquanta has a specific meaning. It means an alternate cost mechanic that uses existing types of quanta. (Ex: Mark quanta)

PS: Why did you change blood from hp costs to a 13th quanta pool (despite being held in a pillar stack)?
Blood essentially is hp cost since it gets generated by draining HP... The pillar mechanics and pool like storage help overcome the problems assosciated with pacing HP costs. Namely, if a card or ability can pull from player HP directly, it encourages high costs to be played right at the start of the game. This is the reverse of current game pacing which restricts high costs to late game.
E.g. if something costs 20 HP it is easier to play in the start of a match, when the player has HP to spare, than at the end when they may not even have 20 HP left.
The idea is that the "Blood" pool will speed up pace at the cost of HP without inverting it.
Reasonable. I think the inversion could be used as a design feature if handled correctly. However this is an elegant method for avoiding the inversion.
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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg533500#msg533500
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 08:08:52 pm »
Looks good to me, then again, i'm a bit biased in favor of it.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Blood Pillar | Blood Tower https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42779.msg534047#msg534047
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 07:04:44 am »
Lovely pillar, however Vial of False God seems weak in comparison to this. Vial has only 5 Blood and can't produce more, while Pillar produces 2 Blood per turn. Furthermore, Pillar is free while Vial costs 1 :rainbow.
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