Round 2 - Strategy

[lava golem]

Our next matchups:
  Tinkady
  Hyroen

  jmdt
  Miniwally

  Dreggs
  Stinnger

  Sir Valimont
  Acsabi44

  kevkev60614
  kobisjeruk

  plastique
  majofa

  Xinef
  brettbstock

  catalyzeme
  glowing ice

  Memorystick
  Lava Golem

I'll expand more later. Although it's up to you guys if you want to use the same decks for round 1.

[kev]

Some preliminary thoughts:
kevkev60614 kobisjeruk
Fractix is obviously a good choice here.  But it's so obviously a good choice that it's almost definitely expected.  plastiqe is contributing to the discussion there and with the 12 free propaganda cards they could easily use some on thunderbolts or fire shields or something if they don't already have them.  Dunno.  Maybe I'm over-thinking it but I'm currently leaning towards a Dragon Powa with upped dragons, or something similarly straightforward.

jmdt Miniwally
My gut says Mini will put together some sort of stall.  They used a water/light stall twice last round, and I could definitely see morningstars, reflectors, and/or miracles appearing.

Hyroen Tinkady
Dragoon1140, in last round's victory thread, said something like "Congratulations Team Fire, you guys countered mono-aether."  I'm pretty sure it was there and not in chat, but he has since edited it.  Anyway, as I said earlier in Fire chat his tone really felt like he was trying to push us off of bolt decks.  So maybe the best deck choice is a bolt deck.  lol.  Fractal decks are a little less likely cuz Tinkady can't fractal upped cards as Drag# could, and therefore dim shield decks are slightly more likely.  Bolt deck options: poisonbolt, sudden killer, or heal stall using heals salvaged from hrmmm.

majofa plastiqe
I suspect plastiqe built the grabby/nova deck they used twice last round.  We were rare in that we didn't show holy lights last round, and darkness may assume we didn't take any.  Dragons, -2 phoenix, -2 pillar, +4 holy lights, is still an intriguing option.  If I were darkness, I wouldn't use fractal devs for a bunch of reasons including: the fact we used mono-fire last round might make it a little more likely we'll use a rainbow here, we showed novas and immos, and fractal devs takes too much time to set up properly against fire.

Lava Golem Memorystick
I looked through the gravity decks and it really looks like they're gonna struggle in this event.  Bolt decks will work unless you run into a discord/BH deck, of which they have 1-2.  They could use it, too, if GG figures you'll take a bolt deck just as I did.  We showed 4 bolt decks last round, as well.  A rush would work just fine but pack ragepots because I guarantee memory will have otys.  More straightforward decks should be effective as well.  If you're concerned about quinted otys, quinted fspirits would be fine as well.

Acsabi44 Sir Valimont
Our first entropy matchup.  Blech.  Here  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7707.msg93859#msg93859)is the support for my Immophoenix recommendation.

catalyzeme glowing ice
Tbh I don't hate quinted fspirits again.  But if you do decide to go that route, I recommend you put in another two lobos.   

Stinnger Dreggs
It's definitely a possibility that earth may use the same deck this round as they used last round against jmdt.  Maybe the splash of time deck, -4 precogs, +4 RTs?  We'd have to pull the RTs from our 12 propaganda cards. RTs are useful if he BBs your creatures.  A bolt deck might be a good option as well.

brettbstock Xinef
 They used a light duos twice last round, and I could definitely see morningstars, reflectors, and/or miracles appearing.  Xinef is also emphasizing PC this War and if he gets it in his head we'll use dimshields, we coud see deflags or steals.  RTs and Eternities make immo decks cry, though, and Xinef will have some.  Your best bet might be something like  the Entropy Duo, -2 fire shield, +2 ragepot.

Wow.  That took a long time to think through.  What deck would you choose if you were the opposition, given what we showed last round (remember we used 4 bolt decks and 2 dimshield decks).  We need to think this through; I'm concerned our performance suffered last round because we were too predictable.  We really, really, really need everybody's opinions, and not just on your own deck.

[lava golem]

[16:37:07] Essence: Whew. We just completed the Vault Project, taking every single deck code from Round 1 and compiling them into a coherent view of every team's starting Vault.

Water will have an idea of our vault. They might do it again for round 2. They'll probably spend some time predicting the deck jmdt will use. Try using the unexpected , worked for me against darkness .

[Acsabi44]

This post is only partial, as I really need to think this through and I don't have the time to do it in one go.
I will complete it later.

kevkev60614 kobisjeruk

Decks  used in the last round:
some rushes (sometimes with aether support)
fractal dev
2 grabby rushes
2  duos
  poison

kobisjeruk used a  graboid rush with novas and some support cards, and he won.
Based ont the decks above, I feel that they will use their deck to stall or deny the game.
My best guess would be a poison stall, with a set of Deadly Poisons. The deck ignores regular stall tactics and accumulates enough poison counters by the time the fractal dev stands up.


jmdt Miniwally

Decks they used:
Steam Machine
mono rush
various  stalls (2 mono, one with mindgate, one  w/AMs)
2  poison

Miniwally lost 0-2 using a squid/mindflayer stall w/ice dragons (aether support for quints).
My gut also says a stall deck played against jmdt here (most teams who can, will play stalls against us as outrushing fire seems a bit awkvard of an idea.) Also, they have some excellent stall material in their vault.
That said, I suggest the quinted spirits deck here, with either 3 upped spirits or 3 towers. Possible tweakings might include -dimshields +deflag, or +lobo, preferably upped.



Hyroen Tinkady

Aether used:
blessed spiders
quinted spirits
fractal dev x2, fractal frog
Immortal creatures
some mixed stall/rush decks mostly w/spiders.

Tinkady, himself, played a quinted spirits and lost 0-2 vs Air.
Aether is tough. they can certainly outstall our rush tactics.
My thought is a boltdeck here. I played one against  last round, and after undertstanding their deck, I feel the matchup was in my favor.(I had some bad draws so I lost, but not bc of bad matchup).
On the other hand, last round we showed 2 boltdecks to aether, so they might prepare a counter for it. Or may not. Either way, this requires some more thinking for sure.


majofa plastiqe

Decks  used in the last round:
some rushes (sometimes with aether support)
fractal dev
2 grabby rushes
2  duos (mostly stall)
  poison

plastique played a  deck and won 2-0.
I feel that he will try the same deck against us. With dense distruption and CC, it is inherently a good matchup vs a medium-heavy rush, Plus, werewolwes are immune to holy light.
I suggest a pure rush deck without serious CC played, making it even more dense. Vreelys come to mind as it's one of our fastest. The other option might be some kind of an OTK tactic. The only thing we'll likely need here is some form of PC, which Vreely also has.


Stinnger Dreggs

  decks
grabby rushes (one w/ support and RTs)
2x dev/EQ denial
fractal golems with DS
a poison/staller
flying morningstars
Timer's vacky voodoo doll deck v. jmdt.

Dreggs himself played a graboid/shrieker rush with RTs. He won 2-0.

My idea was exactly like kev's: Why not play the timesplash deck, with a full set of RTs? I wouldn't be a tad surprised if they played the same voodoo deck vs fire. It seems to be a good all-around counter to general fire strategies, but a creature rush with a handful of RTs and heavy creatures could whack it. We have 4 RTs in the vault atm, but we could always pull some off from the propaganda bonus. Also we didn't show a time-supported deck yet, which can favor us in this matchup.


brettbstock Xinef

Time has played the following in round 1:
Grab rush x2
  stall
2x fire support (one pure stall and one golem rush)
  EQ/RT deny deck
  duo w/devs
blessd scorpions

Xinef played the grabby rush and lost 0-2.

So far, time mostly won with their stalls and lost with rushes. Besides, IMHO time is a support element; crappy support for rushes and one of the best for stallers. That said, I think they'll bring a heavy staller to the tabe, most likely a  stall(just like kev had anticipated). They won't be playing EQ bc they cannot risk 6 dead cards vs a pillarless immorush.
I expect procastinations, RTs, a couple of RS maybe Eternities and prolly Miracles, either with flying morningstars(as a general, xinef can play "free" flying weps) as a win condition or a fat deck aiming to deckout.
I'd play something like this if I were in Xinef's boots:

Code: [Select]

5lg 5lg 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rj 5rj 5rj 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ro 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 5ri(note the sole Ety+ Fate Egg in the deck. That's an anti-deckout falsafe, but it could be left out as well. Also, the Egg can be hatched into something useful under dire circumstances.)

Against a deck like this, the easiest way to win is by distruption, an looking at our vault, distruption spells Discord. So I say go with the  duo. For this specific matchup, I'd cut the CC and pack gas instead, but it's up to you. If I'm wrong and they bring a creature-heavy deck, then you're dead w/o CC.


Sorry, for the last three, I don't really have any serious idea right now I'd like to hear more feedback from you guys.


Lava Golem Memorystick

gravity's decks so far include:
momentumd deathstalkers and poison
2x duos with CC and chargers (one with purifies)
discord/BH denial
immo/phoenix w/fireeaters
various decks with stall cards and chargers for offense.

Memory lost 0-2 with the phoenix/fireeater deck.

I expect Otys to be played, so whatever you play, pack those ragepots.

Acsabi44 Sir Valimont

I expect a  duo w/ the discord/BH combo, maxwells and otys.
Sir Valimont played a creatureless Pandemonium stall, which is deadly v. creature-based decks.

I think the best choice would be the Poisonbolt.


catalyzeme glowing ice
Immo decks cry here.

Discuss.

PS
A general "okay" strategy against shield-reliant stalls is to throw together a bunch of heavy-hitters (drags and phoenixes), slavage (or pull from propaganda) a playset of momentums played off the mark, call it a deck and give it a try. This could always work in the future too, when our vault is thinner and our capabilities limited.

[catalyzeme]

Now that a lot of vaults/decks are known, it's much less about preparing for the element and more about the rock/paper/scissors of deck prediction. Especially using a deck that was previously effective vs. something new.

kevkev  kobi
kevkev: dragon powa, upped dragons
ascabi: predicts poison stall

Darkness is hard to predict, but we can make their decks less effective. We will almost certainly face a Dusk, so reliably drawing deflags will be important. A single dusk would shut down Dragon Powa. I think the denial risk is still too big to go a stall though. I agree that something other than Fractix/Dialbolt should be used. Plus I think after 2 rounds with Fractix not showing up, if we need to use it for the first time in round 3 or 4, it will be much harder to predict. I vote save it until it's got a better chance. We should make sure after this round that our discards won't require to pull cards from it, too.

Not being perm-reliant could be important, as Steal is pretty powerful and I feel like kobi will pack a couple. Dragon Powa could work, but I think an immophoenix would be the best bet. Slightly more resistant to quanta denial. We showed a tendency toward bolt decks in the first round. It's now the rock-paper-scissors effect of figuring out whether or not we will surprise them by using another bolt deck, even though a darkness/aether (from aether) stopped a bolt deck cold in the first round. Either way though, Dragon Powa or Immophoenix.

I think we might see Drain Lifes, too. Aether might not have brought them, but Darkness might bust those out against Fire's low HP creatures. I would vote Immophoenix, although i think the other darkness battle and the entropy battle are the better bets for immophoenix. wish i had a more concrete idea. consider upping pillars for dragon powa, though. even though upping dragons would make them more powerful, the standard ones hit hard, and 3 burning towers/pends + 3 aether towers/pends could speed up the deck by a turn, easily, i imagine.

jmdt  miniwally
kevkev: predicts stall with light (morning glories, reflector) HOWEVER you are mistaken. it was light that played 2 water/light stalls, not water (according to the all war 2 decks thread we have).
ascabi: quinted spirits

Water showed some control decks with freezes, but the way they stall (with creature damage), I think playing our own stall would be risky. I think we'll see one of their decks heavy on CC. I don't think we'll see poison again, as that failed against us last round. Their heaviest CC deck last round was their mindgate deck, which lost. And if we had that deck, I would have voted for scrapping the mindgate idea. That seems hugely risky against literally any element.

The entropy Duo or a CC heavy mono-water I think are the biggest threats (the water splashed with aether for quints, also). I don't think quinted spirits is a bad idea, as it would negate the CC, and have a chance to stop water's big hitters.

hyroen  tinkady
kevkev: bolt deck (after aether making fun of us for taking a bolt deck)
ascabi: bolt deck

honestly, after showing 2 bolt decks last round, and doing poorly, they can't possibly rely on us taking another one. so perhaps it is a good idea. risky, but we have to find a home for bolt decks this round anyway. i think its a calculated risk that might be worth taking. plus it has the added advantage of making us virtually impossible to predict going into the next aether battle. we haven't shown them anything but bolt decks. THAT is confusing. will we stick to our guns with the bolt decks, or finally switch? i think its a risky choice, but the mind games involved with it make me lean in favor of a bolt deck.

majofa  plastiqe
kevkev: dragons with holy lights
ascabi: vreelys/another rush deck. altered to include PC

Again, PC is crucial against darkness. It's simply stupid not to include Dusk against us. It shuts down most of our decks and even if we can deal with it, it requires us to use a deflag on it (leaving an eclipse or stiletto alive). So we need deflags, no matter what we bring. I agree that a rush deck is a good idea here. But again, I fear drain lifes. Vreelys might still be the best bet though, or the other immophoenix. I hate to suggest immophoenix for both, but I don't have much of a way to differentiate these two darkness battles, other than kevkev's upped cards being a factor. looking at what they have, though, i'm not exactly sure holy lights are necessary. only one death marked deck and no darkness decks, and a *lot* of decks light on darkness creatures. they could always be used for healing, though.

lava golem  memorystick
kevkev: rush, quinted spirits
ascabi: expects otys

nova/grabby is the obvious choice, i think, against otyughs. they didn't show quinted otyugh, but they did show plate armor'd otyugh, which might even be worse against us. that deck also had momentum. still, 4 otyughs and 4 plate armors. that means they cant afford to just have a ton of them out. kill them as they get played, if they play otyugh/earth. they might try to play them a turn early to make them appear to not be a threat, then plate armor them and devour in a single turn. black holes would be wise against fire, too, though, as we are a rainbow heavy element. i expect to see those maybe even more than otys. considering that, i think kevkev's quinted spirits idea is a good one.

ascabi  sir valimont
kevkev: immophoenix
ascabi: poisonbolt

Discord/black hole makes a lot of sense to me, like ascabi said. I don't know if they had one available at the post you referenced, kevkev, but if they did, then i dunno why they wouldn't take it if they knew you were gonna use that deck. I highly doubt we will see a deck just like that again. I think i am gonna have to go poisonbolt -2 RoF (i don't see 3 damage helping in this battle) +1 deflag, maybe +1 ragepot, just to be able to take out an abom in the black hole deck (or a purple dragon). I agree with ascabi that that's what we'll see. maybe even just +2 deflags (to really try to prevent discord black hole from working too well). im not sure. entropy vs. fire is hugely hard to predict from both sides. i really dont know. i dont even know if i am comfortable endorsing a deck at this point

catalyze me  glowing icep
kevkev: quinted spirits + lobos?
ascabi: immo decks

Again, deflags will be important (the 2 darkness battles, entropy, and here are where i think we need to focus the deflags) because owl's eye will wreck a fire deck. that bonewall deck really worries me, as our creatures are great targets for it. I think sudden killer has an okay chance against everything except the one deck we played last round, with the flying titans, since they lack perm control, but that would be my second choice. i think the entropy duo would be a good all around deck that could stand up to anything air has. at the same time, air has shown great strategy and great play. we would risk losing the entropy duo in a loss.

Stinnger  dreggs
kevkev: splash of time with RTs
ascabi: same as above

I agree. obviously there are ways it could be beat, but it really hurts graboids in particular, plus it can counter antimatters if they bring that deck. Looking at their decks, I don't know that the single deflag would make a big difference though. RoF might be a good bet, as it would at least prepare for graboids. we can't prepare for everything, and those are nasty. -1 deflag, +1 RoF would be my recommendation, in addition to the RTs. splash of time, though, all the way

brettbstock  xinef
kevkev: entropy duo, modified
ascabi: entropy duo

I am outnumbered here in that I think the entropy duo should be used against air. so many things can go wrong in a bolt deck against air, and that worries me, so i think the entropy would be stronger there. plus the deck ascabi posted screams sudden killer (with reflective shield). it would have all day to build up the 100 damage in one turn. i have no idea if we would see it, but if thats what we are preparing for, i think sudden killer with the reflective shield (held in hand until ready to use) is the way to go. working another fahrenheit into that deck would be great too, if possible, to avoid deflags. i think against the deck he played in round 1, sudden killer also has a pretty good shot (although testing could prove me wrong). i am gonna go against the grain and say sudden killer is the best option here.

[Acsabi44]

Here's a list of the suggested decks, so far:

kev: Dragon Powa, Dragons, Poisonbolt, ImmoPhoenix, (Fractix)
jmdt: quinted spirits
hyroen: boltdeck
majofa: Dragons, Vreely
lava: novaGrabby, Qspirits
acs: Posionbolt, ImmoPhoenix
cat: Qspirits, Entropy duo
sting: Spash of time
brett: Entropy duo, Suddenkiller

to sum it up: 2 Drags, 2 ImmoPhoenix, 2 Poisonobolt, 3 Qspirits, Dragon Powa, Vreely, NovaGrabby, 2 Entropy Duo, Timesplash, Suddenkiller

We can muster 2 Drags, a Dragon Powa, up to 2 Poisonbolt, the Timesplash, the suddenkiller, the Novadeck, another boltdeck, the Vreely and 2 Imomphoenix at the same time. We cannot, however, play more than one Qspirits or Entropy duo.

[Hyroen]

I'd like to point out that brettbstock wanted to use a Poisonbolt, any commentary regarding that?

Aside, I was thinking of using a Poisonbolt myself, but it's not like fails as a deck right?

[kev]

I keep coming back to the fact many Teams are doing research on us, and the best info they have is the Round1 decks we used.  For that reason we may want to use only 1-2 bolt decks this round.  We also should be aware that 8/9 of our decks last round had deflags.

kevkev  kobi
kevkev initially: dragon powa, upped dragons
ascabi: predicts poison stall
cat: Immophoenix
I'm currently split amongst Dragons with upped holy lights, grabbynova, immophoenix, Vreely's, and Dragon Powa with upped pillars.  When other people start taking decks I'll start narrowing.  I feel strongly that they'll expect fractix, and I'm atm leaning away from immophoenix cuz LS would be devastating.  If anybody has input, it'd be appreciated.

jmdt  miniwally
kevkev initially: predicts stall with light but was mistaken.
ascabi: quinted spirits
cat: quinted spirits
Given lava's statement above they'll be less likely to take a stall, fearing a bolt deck.  And as cat pointed out I was wrong to begin with.  cat's analysis was good here.  If you don't use quinted spirits, any fast(ish) deck with a little CC used judiciously stands a good chance.  You could also try some fractix decks if you want.

hyroen  tinkady
kevkev: bolt deck (after aether making fun of us for taking a bolt deck)
ascabi: bolt deck
cat: a bolt deck.
Also, develop a tough stomach if you choose a bolt deck.  If you lose, you may be ridiculed. 

majofa  plastiqe
kevkev: dragons with holy lights
ascabi: vreelys/another rush deck. altered to include PC
cat: immophoenix.
All good advice.  Nothing more to add.

lava golem  memorystick
kevkev: rush, quinted spirits
ascabi: expects otys
cat: quinted spirits
All good advice.  Nothing more to add.

ascabi  sir valimont
kevkev: immophoenix
ascabi: poisonbolt
cat: abstains
Just to be clear, the link showed that jmizzle7 (who is no slouch) predicted the deck pretty much to a card, built a counter, and still lost.  Immophoenix is a beautiful thing because it's resistant to discord and you can immo AM'd phoenixes.  Obviously BH wasn't around then and maybe that changes things.  They showed two discord/EQ decks in addition to one discord/BH deck.  Maybe they'd avoid using those against fire, though.

catalyze me  glowing icep
kevkev: quinted spirits + lobos?
ascabi: immo decks
cat: entropy duo
Not much more to add.  cat pointed out that quinted spirits stands a good chance against all decks except flying titans.  Which is why I recommended two additional lobos.  Meh.

Stinnger  dreggs
kevkev: splash of time with RTs
ascabi: same as above
cat: splash of time -1 deflag, +1 RoF
All good advice.  Nothing more to add.

brettbstock  xinef
kevkev: entropy duo, modified
ascabi: entropy duo
cat: sudden killer
brett: poisonbolt
I looked a lot at this and Time's Round1 decks.  They know we have 4 bolt decks and probably 4 immo decks.  After losing Round1, Xinef won't wait around to be bolted to death.  I could definitely see him using either the immo deck or an anubis deck we haven't yet seen.  Poisonbolt would struggle badly against either.  I feel like he'll be hesitant to bring dragons which are susceptible to ragepots without anubis to protect them.  As I think more about it, the entropy duo is prolly not your best bet, as he could just rewind his own AM'd creatures.  I like Dragon Powa, maybe modded with additional deflag(s) as an option.  It has everything you need and nothing you don't.  I thought of Dragons as well but you don't need the phoenix durability at all.

Keep replying with your thoughts.  I love the way this thread is shaping up!

[Acsabi44]

Just wanted to note that brett could always try the  duo with -2AM +2 ragepot.

Otherwise, I cannot really add anything new to the discussion.

[catalyzeme]

In my previous post I was just getting all my thoughts down. I have decks in multiple places and overlaps that obviously can't happen. Gonna try and sort out my ideas:

I think quinted spirits (although I think it would be worth using against for me and against for lava golem) should go to jmdt against water.

With that gone, I need to suggest one for me against and lava against . If jmdt doesn't want quinted spirits, I think it should move to one of these.

Thinking about gravity, I think it would be hard to mix in Black Holes and heavy CC (like otyugh) and still pack a damage punch. I didn't think of thise before, but maybe Vreely's could be good here. Black Holes would heal a decent amount, yes, but they might play them early, expecting all the Immo quanta to get used. Vreely's is sort of sneaky, considering Immophoenix actually uses all that quanta. I think it's a little heavy on PC right now, so maybe -3 deflag +3 rage pot might help. That could take out otyughs. Plus, Lava Golems are a decent anti-otyugh, as you don't have to hold them off that long. If you start with a rage pot in hand (the version I suggest has 4), then you should be able to easily outgrow the otyugh with the first golem. Gravity Shield would be a problem if you grow big, but I certainly wouldn't bring a gravity shield against Fire. Especially since we established that Dragons, Phoenix, and Fire Bolt are the damage dealers we like. Grav Shield is sort of a silly call against us.

for hyroen, aether seems to love those phase dragons and spiders. i think sudden killer is the good bet. although, they did play a fractal devourer deck against Time (and the one against me), so running into those would be bad news. i seriously doubt they expect a bolt deck, though, so those would be risky by them, as our quanta methods can get around devourers for the most part. i think we'll see a variation or a brand new deck centering around aether creatures. if we're wrong about them not suspecting a bolt, then its a guaranteed 0-2 loss though, basically. the other deck they beat us with would be a good call against fire, since it can use our big creatures against us and has the speed to stop poisonbolt (which we showed them). it has no PC though (wise against fire) and would be susceptible to phase shields. honestly, that deck looks to me like it's supposed to be a vs. fire catch-all, where they can beat us no matter what we use (maybe they would use it vs life or earth, other big hitting creature, low permanent elements). it looks so strong against every one of our decks, but sudden killer well-played could beat it. either way, again, i like the idea of showing aether 3 straight bolt decks, and make them really second guess themselves in our next match-up over what they should prepare for. also: they didn't show a reflective shield in round 1, but they did play 2 light decks and 1 life. not sure whether or not removing the shield/nova would be wise. player's discretion.

entropy's decks mostly look pretty slow to me, except for their 2 graboid earthquake decks. i think a fast, mostly pillarless deck might be the best chance here. maybe nova/grabby? i didn't suggest that one at all in my previous post. although, now that i've looked at their decks, immophoenix might have a good shot too. cc cards should hopefully stop maxwell's in either case.

time is hard to tell, as their decks are diverse. if i were them, i would bring their entropy duo with upped antimatters (antimatters lose 2 cost upgraded) and immophoenix would be a good idea. nova/grabby, too, can either self-kill with rage pot or burrow AM'd shriekers. a RT deck would be trouble against either of these though. sudden killer -reflective shield -nova +2 RoF  (would take both to kill elite graboids, but these could bail it out if they played the devourer deck, although they would still be able to steal phase shields...). i really don't know, honestly, i think this spot should just be whatever is left. we are having a hell of a time predicting, plus time gets 6 upgraded cards. maybe just play a version of dragons, which would be less susceptible to RT with extra quanta, and would at least have a shot at outrushing anything on a good draw. Dragon Powa would be a similar idea, just hoping for a big outrush

kevkev, Dragons sounds good to me, but i am still skeptical about holy lights. they are almost certainly not going to be using a mark, and darkness creatures are pretty low HP anyway. if anything, upped Firestorms would clear even nightfall's minor vamps and devourers. i think that would be a smart upgraded modification to Dragons, personally. plus maybe pillars for speed.

which leaves open the entropy duo for me, against . other than here, i think entropy duo has potential against entropy itself, and maybe against xinef (even though he could RT AM'd creatures.)

jmdt  quinted spirits, upgraded lobo, deflags?
lava golem vreelys -3 deflag +3 rage pot
hyroen sudden killer, nova/shield optional
Stinnger splash of time -1 RoF, -4 precog, +4 reverse time, +1 deflag. I think the RTs make up for losing the RoF. they aren't super perm heavy, though, so something else could go there too. that's just my suggestion.
majofa immophoenix
ascabi nova/grabby (immophoenix would work too).
brettbstock general, Dragon Powa
kevkev Dragons -1 Dragon, -1 Fahrenheit, -1 Pend, +3 Firestorm, 3 upgraded pillars (or some other modification. holy lights could be worked in, too)
catalyzeme entropy duo -1 chaos seed, +1 deflag

NOTE: we only have 3 rain of fires in the vault. 1 in splash of time, 2 in poisonbolt. so my suggestion for +3 firestorm in kevkev's deck might not be viable without removing that one from splash of time, or taking another from propaganda. we do have extra rage pots though.

so, this is a more concrete suggestion line-up from me. hope to keep hearing everyone else's thoughts

[majofa]

..and yes I know, some of the cards exceed our Vault limit.

  kevkev60614
  kobisjeruk

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4so 4so 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 809  jmdt
  Miniwally

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52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 7dr 7dr 7dr  Hyroen
  Tinkady

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4vj 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f7 5lg 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 63a 63a  majofa
  plastique

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9  lava golem
  Memorystick

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52q 595 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5i7 5i7 5l9 5l9 5l9 5og 5og 5rk 5ur 61p 61p 61p 61q  Acsabi44
  Sir Valimont

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4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f3 5f3 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5og  catalyzeme
  glowing ice

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi  Stinnger
  Dreggs

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f6 5f8 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5gi 5gi 5gi 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk  brettbstock
  Xinef

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4ve 4vf 4vf 4vi 4vi 4vi 4vi 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vn 5f5 5f5 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi

[kev]

but i am still skeptical about holy lights. they are almost certainly not going to be using a mark, and darkness creatures are pretty low HP anyway.

Just a heads up that Holy Lights cast on the opposing player heals them regardless of their mark.  I'm not totally set on using holy lights either, but killing a dragon or healing my creature or myself for 0 cost has a certain appeal.  Still thinking about it.

Edit: if we don't use the Holy Lights this round we should convert them.

jmdt
  Miniwally

Code: [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 7dr 7dr 7dr

Using upped ragepots to counter ice dragons is something I hadn't thought of.

No more time until our Round 2 Decks need to be set in stone.  We can still test and tweak some decks, but it's time to start making some decisions.  Go ahead and post your deck in the Round2 decks thread if you're leaning heavily one way.  You can always change it later, but it might help others make decisions if you pave the way.

And keep this thread rumbling.  Lots of good analysis in here.