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Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg177459#msg177459
« on: October 16, 2010, 06:17:38 am »
Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting

Salvaging
5 x Firebolt
1 x Deflag
12 x Poison
1 x Vampire Stiletto
5 x Basilisk Blood
2 x Steal
1 x Dusk
3 x Freeze
3 x Shockwave
3 x Ice Dragon
1 x Arsenic
2 x Ice Shield

Discarding
5 x Firebolt
1 x Deflag
6 x Poison
6 x Fire Pillar
2 x Freeze
1 x Basilisk Blood
1 x Vampire Stiletto
2 x Phoenix

Converting
2 x Basilisk Blood
2 x Steal
1 x Dusk
3 x Ice Dragon
2 x Shockwave
2 x Ice Shield
Total converted into 12 fire pendulums

Propaganda Bonus
2 x Reverse Time
2 x Freeze
8 x Phoenix

Offline Hyroen

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179810#msg179810
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 03:54:01 pm »
After each win, the team can salvage cards from the opponent. Winning team picks 6 cards from the deck posted by the losing player, which will be added to their Vault. These cards become part of the Vault and can be later used by anyone on that team. Salvaged cards are always unupped even if the original card is upped. Maximum card amount of 18 doesn't apply to salvaged cards.

When you salvage cards, you are not really taking cards from the opponent, you are merely taking a copy of that card and putting it into your Vault. In Elements terms, you are using Parallel Universe on those cards.
The previous is good to keep in mind.

Salvaging/Discarding ideas:

    As :fire Fire we should probably be discarding
Pillars, having the ability to convert 12 cards into pillars per turn and having Immolation | Cremation as great assistance.Against :aether Aether we might consider taking their Dimensional Shield | Phase Shield, more defense for us, as we bolt them.Against :air Air let's consider taking possibly Flying Weapon. These cards are very flexible and provide us with a staple deck and even a forum member, Flying Farenheit.Against :darkness Darkness, I get the feeling that the Devourer | Pest will be all over the place, since they won't be able to convert cards into them but serve as pillars anyways. We should also be looking into their duality and splashing them with Immolations and Lava Golems with Mark of Earth might be interesting.Against :death Death, having more copies of Arsenic will help us in those rainbow decks that Fire can make so easily, and maybe even more Poison for us so that we can make duplicate PoisonBolt decks.Against :earth Earth the card to look at is Enchant Artifact | Protect Artifact. Everyone will be worrying about 2 main things to create a deck, Creature Control and Permanent Control. With this card, our Fire Shields would mean a lot more pain.Against :entropy Entropy, the obvious card to salvage is of course the Nova | Supernova following the same "can't convert to it" logic. These are seen in a lot of Firebows and just relying in Immolations leave any Firebow in a tricky spot without any Photons.Against :gravity Gravity Momentum | Unstoppable is one of their cards that really shines. Fire creature know they can be brittle at times, and a Crimson Dragon with 4 health fears no longer bolts or rains of fire. Shields can mess us up a lot of the times, and to be able to go right through them will come to Fire as a major advantage.Against :life Life, perhaps having their Heal | Improved Heal would help as jmdt's Christmas for your score deck has shown previously.Against :light Light, more Photons for our Immolations would work nicely, and if Darkness or Death are doing well, we might want to take more Holy Lights. Though adding more Miracles to our vault will help us as well.Against :time Time, it's been said before that Reverse Time | Rewind is one of their cards to fear, especially with our growing creatures and Immolations. So why not use them for us? Another viable option are those Precognitions that everyone seems to value for their deck thinning.Against :water Water, we should be looking at Death's progress in case we need to take more Purify from Water or not, but that's more situational. In a more typical case, Steam Machine would work nicely with Fire.[/list]
These are just my opinions however, please feel free to post your own.
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Offline kev

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179858#msg179858
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 06:02:28 pm »
Rule clarification:

[12:54:40 PM] kevkev60614 [»] Scaredgirl: i think it may be an important question. do salvage/discard happen simultaneously?
[12:55:30 PM] Scaredgirl [»] kevkev60614: salvaging happens first
[12:55:50 PM] Scaredgirl [»] kevkev60614: so you can discard cards that you salvage during that same round

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179911#msg179911
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 07:08:29 pm »
I was under the impression that the losing deck had to discard cards FROM that deck. But I guess with this clarification, we can discard from anywhere?

Offline catalyzeme

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179916#msg179916
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 07:13:30 pm »
I was under the impression that the losing deck had to discard cards FROM that deck. But I guess with this clarification, we can discard from anywhere?
I thought this as well, which made the 12 pillar conversions per round somewhat limiting. I'm glad to hear this.

Offline kev

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179931#msg179931
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 07:32:49 pm »
I was under the impression that the losing deck had to discard cards FROM that deck. But I guess with this clarification, we can discard from anywhere?
I thought this as well, which made the 12 pillar conversions per round somewhat limiting. I'm glad to hear this.
I think you can disregard my earlier post.  We do have to discard from that deck.  I think I confused both myself and SG.

Edit: If you guys can get into Fire chat, please do so.

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Re: Salvaging/Discarding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg179935#msg179935
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 07:35:01 pm »
I can't get on chat for another 4 hours because i'm at work :(

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg186089#msg186089
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 02:38:43 pm »
So here are the decks we've won against:
    Code: [Select]
    52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52u 52u 52u 52u 52u 52u 55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 576 576 576 744 746 746 746 746 75m
    Code: [Select]
    595 595 595 595 595 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uo 5up 5up 5ur 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 7t5 7t5 7t5
    Code: [Select]
    5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5jm 5jm 5jm 5id 5id 5id 5id 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5on 5on 5on
    Code: [Select]
    5bt 5bt 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c4 5c4 5c8 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb
    Code: [Select]
    52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm[/list]and these are the decks that we have lost with:
      Code: [Select]
      5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f5 5f5 5f6 5f6 5f7 5f7 5f7 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi
      Code: [Select]
      52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f5 5f6 5f6 5f8 5f8
      Code: [Select]
      595 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5i7 5l9 5l9 5l9 5og 5og 5rk 61p 61p 61p 61q 71a 7gn 7tb
      Code: [Select]
      5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f6 5f6 61o 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61u 621 621 621 63a 63a 63a[/list]As Vault Organizer, this should help us selecting cards to salvage and discard, and ultimately, organize our vault maintenance.
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      Offline jmdt

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      Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg186812#msg186812
      « Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 05:35:23 am »
      I recommend salvaging 6 poison fron GG.  This will give the option to run 2 poisonbolt decks in the future.

      As for the other 2 decks, we'd be best to dump pillars at this point.  I'll give more commentary once the rest of the decks are posted.

      Offline Hyroen

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      Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg188431#msg188431
      « Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 03:10:40 pm »
      Now that all matches are finished, let's get crackin'.
      We need to:
        discard a total of 24 cards, 6 from  each of our decks that lost, and salvage a total of [3*9 + 2*6]=39. 9 from each deck which was beaten with a flawless victory and 6 from each deck which was beaten 2-1
      This means the vault will receive the following changes:
      - 24
      + 39
      + 15
      It will receive 15 extra cards, good job men. This means, assuming no Modifiers are applied, we will be left with a vault of:
      434
      + 15
      449
      due to Round 1. I'm also pretty sure we should be receiving the 12 cards from the Propaganda sometime soon. I'll keep you posted.
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      Offline jmdt

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      Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg188664#msg188664
      « Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 06:28:55 pm »
      Let me update my ideas for salvaging and discarding.  Everyone discuss.

      Salvaging:

      GG - 6 cards - 6 poison.
       
      hrmmm - 6 cards - 5 firebolt, 1 deflagration.

      kuro - 9 cards - 5 BB, 1 stilletto, 2 steal, 1 dusk mantle.

      RR - 9 cards - 6 poison, 1 arsenic, 2 ice shield

      dictator - 9 cards - 3 freeze, 3 shockwave, 3 ice dragon.

      My basic idea is that we take 2 extra sets of poison from GG and RR, this lets us run mutliple poison bolt decks and maybe poison dragons.  Since poison is cheap, its a great filler card to run off the mark. If we want, we can pick up a momemtum or 2 from GG to have for later if we smell a stall.  From RR I also like the idea of picking up arsenic with its synergy with poison and immo.  The ice shield seem like the next most valuable card RR has since we also have water cards to farm from dictator.  From the dictator freezes are a great pickup as a multipurpose card.  If we make a wings deck, the shockwaves would fit well there as well.  I like the ice dragons to go with the ice shield, toadfish doesn't do us as much good.  The BB from Kuro are great CC that can be added to any deck from the mark.  Stilletto is a nice cheap card that can be powerful.  Steal and dusk mantle are also great options to have.  As much as I'd love a set of heals from hrmmm, taking 5 firebolt and either 1 deflag of rage pot is probably the most prudent choice as a set of bolts essentially gives us another deck to play with.

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      Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14057.msg188848#msg188848
      « Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 08:52:48 pm »
      I really like the idea of setting up more poison decks, but I'd go 6 mumentum from GG and only one playset of poison(and the arsenic, of course) from RR.

      I think we gonna need those momentums. I'd been happy if the initial vault contained them.
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