Deck Ideas

[jmdt]

UG deck with wings for stall and phoenix as a backup in case of reflective shield.  teh deck is 32 cars in case deckout is needed to win if reflective shield and heavy CC.  The rage pots are there to eat dragons and other flying critters.

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[catalyzeme]

We really need to get cracking on this, and this thread is getting unwieldy. Can we start individual threads for each deck up for consideration? And maybe kevkev, you could pick out the best decks from the last war and post those in threads too? Then we could more easily organize the tweaks and pick out our 434 cards ASAP.

We need to get the definite decks into the Vault as soon as we can so we know how many cards we're working with. Every deck looks like it has potential with 400+ cards to throw around

[jmdt]

Steam machine deck.  Ice dragons and steamers for damage, freeze and nymphs for CC.  Incase everything else goes wrong, you have fire bolts to finish them off

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[kev]

Very likely to make the cut:

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fk 5fk 5gi 5gi 5gi 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7k1

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Ver 1.1: modded Dragon Powa on cat’s feedback and moved it to Tier 1.
Modded Dragons on cat’s feedback.
Moved acs’ splash of time deck to Tier 1.
Doubled immophoenix.
Moved various decks to Tier 3.

Ver 1.2: pasted EQ-proof decks to Tiers 1 and 2 from acs’ post. (Thanks acs!)
Added modified Sudden Killer to Tier 1.  I got 9-1, and the loss was close.
Modified miracle stall.  I got 8-2 with this version; it’s decent but is a little draw prone and struggles against big critters and/or quanta control.  I’d prolly go +2 pillars, -1 pend if I was to keep testing.
Added heal stall to Tier 2.  I got 9-1.  Solid deck but not as good as Sudden Killer imo.

Ver 1.3: Swapped steal for a deflag in Fractal Phoenix.

Ver 1.4: Edited Fractal Phoenix.

I'll update this post here rather than reposting as we progress.  I’d love to hear concrete feedback.  If you think a deck should move up to Tier 1 or a Tier 1 deck should be doubled, tell me which deck should come out of Tier 1.

[catalyzeme]

kevkev, here is some input:

dragon powa:

After some testing, I think dragon powa should be tweaked like so:

-4 aether pillar +2 lobotomizer +2 fire pendulum

The way it's built now is way too aether quanta heavy. I was ending most matches with 30+ aether quanta stockpiled, and would go entire matches losing because I never built up 10 fire. As you posted it, the total cost of its fire cards is 44 and the total cost of its aether cards is 42, but it has several more aether pillars than fire + an aether mark.

The lobotomizers are useful, but playing one probably does slow you down about 1 Parallel Universe. However, it's a 5 damage weapon for only 3 quanta (pretty powerful as unupped weapons go), can help control enemy creatures, and its ability is useless if stolen. I still didn't have a problem loading up on aether quanta, and could play 2 PUs pretty consistently around the time of the first dragon. Sometimes 1, sometimes 3 or 4, but 2 PUs was pretty typical, and pretty deadly. Against an opponent with high single creature CC, you should (edit: should *not*) have a problem saving up, still. And lobo can potentially really slow them down. For a deck with no defense other than deflags, that's pretty helpful.

Obviously from round to round those 2 lobotomizers could be swapped for either 2 fire pendulums or 1 fire pillar/1 aether pillar (we should bring an extra aether pillar to go that route), depending on the opponent.


otk:

I like the tweaked dragon powa better than otk as it is now, but I didn't try working pendulums into otk or anything like that. It would require only 7 extra cards (the 5 phase shields and 2 fractals) to include the parts to substitute it, though. I assume we'll be carrying a handful of extra dragons/deflags.

With just a bit of testing, 5 phase shields seems like a lot. I think 4 and another dragon might be better. With 2 dragons, it seems way too likely that in a 3 game set you'll lose one just because you didn't draw a dragon. Obviously we can't eliminate bad draws, but this deck as it is seems to be begging for one. If the Dim Shield stall worked, it wouldn't be a problem, but looking at the last war's decks, it looks like people really try to include Deflags/Steals/Pulvies/Momentums.

I haven't tested otk enough for me to give my definite opinion on it, though. I will try to work out some time for it tomorrow.

Dragons:

This one I worry about having no defense, as well as having 4 Fahrenheits. I understand that it keeps you from not having one in case of perm control, but if you're facing perm control, then they aren't as good as bolts anyway. I personally would be more comfortable if even just one Fahrenheit was swapped for another Phoenix or even just a single Fire Bolt.

Also, just a matter of updating the deck code: it needs a pillar/pendulum split.


Quinted Fire Spirits:

I would appreciate someone testing this one with me in PVP Duel. Obviously if you are including it, then it works, I am just not seeing how it is effective on paper. Maybe sometime soon someone could play me with it.

[Acsabi44]

Here's some playtest results I promised earlier.
All games ara against AI3. The results are in a "win-loss" form

Poison Bolt
30 games, 17-13
 Edit: Another session, 20 games played, 17-3
Am I missing something here? It should be much better.

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10 games, 7-3
(I'm using this deck in PVP1 and it's better, I don't have the exact statistics but I played, like, 50 games with it and won around 40)

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15 games, 14-1
Edit: another session, this time17-3, with 20 games played. (all losses vs.the entropy deck)

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30 games, 27-3

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10 games, 6-4

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20 games, 10-10
Great on a fast draw but too slow on an average one.

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Vreely's ImmoGolem
20 games, 20-0

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30 games, 26-4
30 games, 25-5

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Dragons
15 games, 15-0
EDIT: Hyroen did a 13-2 with the deck
I'm incredibly surprised by this deck's performance, yet still a bit worried about playing it against a human opponent.

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Firebolt Sudden Killer
15 games played, 11-4

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[kev]

dragon powa:
The way it's built now is way too aether quanta heavy.

****.  Sorry for making you waste your time.  I was using only pillars when I tested.  I meant to exchange aether pillars for aether pends to EQ-proof a bit, but I accidentally converted the fire pillars instead before posting.  My bad.  Here's the correct deck:

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otk:
With just a bit of testing, 5 phase shields seems like a lot. I think 4 and another dragon might be better.

Good feedback.  When I posted this, I was thinking that all 24 bolts would be spoken for.  If they're not, maybe dimshield/firebolt is a better deck than this?  I'm not sure.

Dragons:
This one I worry about having no defense, as well as having 4 Fahrenheits. I understand that it keeps you from not having one in case of perm control, but if you're facing perm control, then they aren't as good as bolts anyway. I personally would be more comfortable if even just one Fahrenheit was swapped for another Phoenix or even just a single Fire Bolt.

Also, just a matter of updating the deck code: it needs a pillar/pendulum split.

I agree 100%, and that's the change I made in War1 before actually using it.  Re: pend additions, you're absolutely right for most of these decks.  I'm not concerned atm cuz it should be quick but we can't forget to do that.

Quinted Fire Spirits:
I would appreciate someone testing this one with me in PVP Duel. Obviously if you are including it, then it works, I am just not seeing how it is effective on paper. Maybe sometime soon someone could play me with it.

I'm around today and in Fire chat.

REALLY valuable feedback.  Thank you so much.

[kev]

Here's some playtest results I promised earlier.
All games ara against AI3. The results are in a "win-loss" form

Poison Bolt
30 games, 17-13
Am I missing something here? It should be much better.

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52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f5 5f6 5f6 5f8 5f8

Yikes.  Yeah, it should be way, way better than that.  Generally don't bolt opposing creatures unless they're a real threat (lycans and shriekers are scenario dependent) and save deflags for weapons only.

Some of the results you posted are surprising, both positive and negative, so I'm gonna start testing decks myself.  Thanks for this!

[Hyroen]

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7-3

Does not make it through the 9:1 win ratio filter. Should still be considered when facing Death.

[catalyzeme]

We have 25 Phoenixes listed in our decks most likely to make the cut right now. Obviously this isn't a huge problem, but we need to make sure to not include all of them in a single round without tweaking the Phoenix count.

Also, a couple considerations:
Are we going to pack extra Fire Shields for Life? Fire Shields should be incorporated into almost every deck for them, imo. That would obliterate adrenostaves and heavily hurt other adrenaline decks. Extra deflags for Aether, Air would be good too. I know we haven't gotten all the decks 100% figured out yet, but we are getting close enough to the deadline that people should be thinking about tweaks. Maybe at some point potential round to round tweaks could be listed under each deck?

And are we considering what decks would be best for jmdt at this point? For example, in the Entropy duo, you save 2 quanta per Antimatter upgrading them. The Twin Universe deck would be another good one, since you could PU an upped Dragon multiple times.

I plan on continuing testing the entropy duo. It seemed to work fine, but I would like to see if the balance of entropy creatures in it could be improved.

I will try to see what I can do about a Gravity Duo, also. I personally am worried that all we will face is rush counters if we play 3 phoenix rushes, a phoenix/dragon rush, a golem rush, and a dragon rush. Poison Bolt's performance against AI3 was disheartening as an alternative, too. I would love to try and get 1 or 2 more solid Duos into the mix.

[kev]

We have 25 Phoenixes listed in our decks most likely to make the cut right now.

Good catch.  We'll need to perform these checks, but I wanted to get more feedback on the twelve decks I proposed before bringing out the fine-tooth comb.

Re: the couple considerations:

We'll pack extra of most fire cards.  Listing potential round to round tweaks might be excessive but if you want to take a shot, have at it.Matchups will determine which decks are best for jmdt, though he'll take his 3 ups into consideration.  PU dragons is a good option; he had the same thought.By all means, keep testing the entropy duo... or any other decks for that matter.  I look forward to your feedback.

Poison Bolt's performance against AI3 was disheartening as an alternative, too.

Did you have a similar experience to acs?  I am absolutely trouncing AI3 with it, but as General I'll never use this deck.  If you guys want it replaced, speak up.  Remember, you guys are the ones who will be stuck playing these decks.

[Acsabi44]

I playtested various Steam Machine builds. I won't post the exact results bc mostly they are barely in the positive win-loss range.  Tl;Dr I say we leave Steam Machines out.