Decks Used Against Arena with Stats 1.32

[ColorlessGreen]

lately this thread goes weeks without any input, so lets not pretend that its hurting anyone to see a post or two a month

if you try to see what people successfully use against arena, you get a LOT of "my deck works against silver/gold but not plat".  probably because unupped decks from potentially less experienced players with less AI bonuses are easier to beat?  whoda thunk it...

i try to add some robust stats and game recaps so its at least mildly entertaining and informative.  people seem to think saying "35-20 vs gold" is an actual stat.  what does it win against?  lose against?  EM?  how fast?  are some losses obvious skips or do you have to play it out?  and honestly even TTW is misleading, TIME to win probably much more important

if some of the players who beat their heads against plat all the time can be generous enough to share their secrets (even if one is so egomaniacal to believe that hundreds of people stack their AI decks against your personal farming deck  ) about what currently works, THAT seems like the best use of this thread.  creating some kind of deck archive seems against the usefulness of an active forum.  lets discuss whats currently working and compare.  arena changes so fast compared to FG.

theres nothing wrong with asking for more stats, its a nice way to minimize the "hey i just thought this deck up and its awesome in my head but its completely untested if it actually works".  that said, something that someone played 2-3 months ago for 50 games may not be that relevant anymore, even if its well documented

What I was doing is actually asking for more stats from you and from the others who are not posting sufficiently detailed stats in order to be included in the study, and reiterating the criteria for inclusion in the study in case you and others were unaware of the requirements.

I also specifically mentioned that I would still rather have the partial stats than no stats at all, but I would prefer even more the fully detailed stats according to the preferred criteria used here (50+ games, W/L, EM rate, TTW).

I would certainly be up for discussing changing the criteria if you think it would be beneficial. I would also support someone creating a separate thread for more day-to-day discussions of what's working right now and how someone's last 20 games or so went, but (while that is certainly good and valuable information and discussion), it is not the precise purpose of this study.

edit: As additional clarification again, I absolutely have no objection to the discussions I mentioned above going on in this thread. As I said before, I want as much information as possible. The reason I'm particularly concerned about information getting included in the OP is that a really large percentage of people who look at the thread don't look past the OP, and that this is a study with a specific goal (being an as-complete-as-possible aggregation of stats on arena farming decks).

[Bootsza]

lately this thread goes weeks without any input, so lets not pretend that its hurting anyone to see a post or two a month

if you try to see what people successfully use against arena, you get a LOT of "my deck works against silver/gold but not plat".  probably because unupped decks from potentially less experienced players with less AI bonuses are easier to beat?  whoda thunk it...

i try to add some robust stats and game recaps so its at least mildly entertaining and informative.  people seem to think saying "35-20 vs gold" is an actual stat.  what does it win against?  lose against?  EM?  how fast?  are some losses obvious skips or do you have to play it out?  and honestly even TTW is misleading, TIME to win probably much more important

if some of the players who beat their heads against plat all the time can be generous enough to share their secrets (even if one is so egomaniacal to believe that hundreds of people stack their AI decks against your personal farming deck  ) about what currently works, THAT seems like the best use of this thread.  creating some kind of deck archive seems against the usefulness of an active forum.  lets discuss whats currently working and compare.  arena changes so fast compared to FG.

theres nothing wrong with asking for more stats, its a nice way to minimize the "hey i just thought this deck up and its awesome in my head but its completely untested if it actually works".  that said, something that someone played 2-3 months ago for 50 games may not be that relevant anymore, even if its well documented

This is probably the most sensible (and mature?) thing I have read on the forums in a long time.

Sure, stats are great but they exist in a specific and limited period of time.

Regular (whatever that means...) updates of trends and "what works" in arena play is MUCH more useful and interesting.

Interesting in that the discussion will be more in depth and thoughtful and promote understanding of gameplay.

I wish I had more time to contribute to this, but, I think the beauty of the idea is that WHENEVER you have time you can contribute to this

Nice.

[rob77dp]

Ok, I have a new deck to start up here...

So far I have only used it in Bronze and have not yet fully upgraded it (hmmmm, do we need any more fully upgraded Bronze farmers?), but here it is anyways:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 71e 71e 71e 71e 71e 71e 7tb 7tb 8pn

Downfalls are bad draws (as all complicated combo decks hate) and Dim Shield - Purify is not so big of a deal as the poison counter re-stacks so quickly with the right combo out.

Stats so far (I know, not yet at the 50 required for real consideration, but this will serve as a place holder for me to re-visit to update later):

Matches: 35
Win: 26
Loss: 9
EM: 0
Win%: 74.3
TTW: 8.50
[electrum]/hr: 472.6 (excluding card sales from cards won on Slot spins)
SS/hr: 3.50 (suffered a losing streak late in this test run )

Notes:  I attribute 7 losses directly to slow/poor/bad draws (it suffers from more frequent slow draws than that but usually has the power to come back and win).

[rob77dp]

************
PLEASE EXCUSE DOUBLE POST
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Spoiler for Quote pyramid:

lately this thread goes weeks without any input, so lets not pretend that its hurting anyone to see a post or two a month

if you try to see what people successfully use against arena, you get a LOT of "my deck works against silver/gold but not plat".  probably because unupped decks from potentially less experienced players with less AI bonuses are easier to beat?  whoda thunk it...

i try to add some robust stats and game recaps so its at least mildly entertaining and informative.  people seem to think saying "35-20 vs gold" is an actual stat.  what does it win against?  lose against?  EM?  how fast?  are some losses obvious skips or do you have to play it out?  and honestly even TTW is misleading, TIME to win probably much more important

if some of the players who beat their heads against plat all the time can be generous enough to share their secrets (even if one is so egomaniacal to believe that hundreds of people stack their AI decks against your personal farming deck  ) about what currently works, THAT seems like the best use of this thread.  creating some kind of deck archive seems against the usefulness of an active forum.  lets discuss whats currently working and compare.  arena changes so fast compared to FG.

theres nothing wrong with asking for more stats, its a nice way to minimize the "hey i just thought this deck up and its awesome in my head but its completely untested if it actually works".  that said, something that someone played 2-3 months ago for 50 games may not be that relevant anymore, even if its well documented

This is probably the most sensible (and mature?) thing I have read on the forums in a long time.

Sure, stats are great but they exist in a specific and limited period of time.

Regular (whatever that means...) updates of trends and "what works" in arena play is MUCH more useful and interesting.

Interesting in that the discussion will be more in depth and thoughtful and promote understanding of gameplay.

I wish I had more time to contribute to this, but, I think the beauty of the idea is that WHENEVER you have time you can contribute to this

Nice.

I'd like to remind us all to keep in mind the thread title/topic (and hence purpose set forth by Elbirn), "Decks Used Against Arena with Stats 1.32", not "Latest successful decks vs the Arena 1.32".  While I agree what zombie0 and Bootsza suggest would be helpful that is not the intent of this thread.  What ColorlessGreen is putting forward is in line with the purpose of this thread.

Somebody should begin and upkeep a separate thread along the lines of "what have you used lately and how did it work against what level of Arena" for exactly the reasons given here by zombie0 and Bootsza.

[Pella]

At one point, I wrote that I would help with this testing.  So far, I have not, despite the fact that I grind in the Arena for several hours, most days.

I couldn't help but notice that 100% of the decks shown in the OP are 100% upped (or extremely close to 100%).  I have ~300 upped cards spread across all 12 elements + Other.  I can build exactly zero of the decks in the OP using my current vault.  I'll check back in a month or two and see if there's anything I can test.

Are we interested in testing unupped decks?  If so, which unupped decks are we interested in testing?

[ColorlessGreen]

At one point, I wrote that I would help with this testing.  So far, I have not, despite the fact that I grind in the Arena for several hours, most days.

I couldn't help but notice that 100% of the decks shown in the OP are 100% upped (or extremely close to 100%).  I have ~300 upped cards spread across all 12 elements + Other.  I can build exactly zero of the decks in the OP using my current vault.  I'll check back in a month or two and see if there's anything I can test.

Are we interested in testing unupped decks?  If so, which unupped decks are we interested in testing?

We are definitely interested in testing unupped decks, and there are several in the OP.

The problem is with the "(League) Archive" sections of the OP. "Archive", when used in this thread's OP, means "decks which are not in the overall top five by win rate" rather than "old decks included for the historical record". All unupped decks are in this category. There was discussion a few pages back about ways to improve this, but it never really went anywhere.

At any rate, check in the archives and you'll see the state of current unupped deck testing. We could definitely use more. I also have some (currently unpublished (though I'll hopefully correct that soon)) additional unupped antabow stats in bronze/silver I've been meaning to post.

edit: In case we're about to reopen discussion about formatting the OP, my favorite simple solution is just to have separate lists for unupped/upped for both bronze/silver (and I guess gold/platinum if anyone ever makes an unupped deck that doesn't get completely demolished in those leagues). This will go a long ways to helping new players who look at the thread and can't find unupped decks (which happens in chat constantly).

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Hidden:

At one point, I wrote that I would help with this testing.  So far, I have not, despite the fact that I grind in the Arena for several hours, most days.

I couldn't help but notice that 100% of the decks shown in the OP are 100% upped (or extremely close to 100%).  I have ~300 upped cards spread across all 12 elements + Other.  I can build exactly zero of the decks in the OP using my current vault.  I'll check back in a month or two and see if there's anything I can test.

Are we interested in testing unupped decks?  If so, which unupped decks are we interested in testing?

We are definitely interested in testing unupped decks, and there are several in the OP.

The problem is with the "(League) Archive" sections of the OP. "Archive", when used in this thread's OP, means "decks which are not in the overall top five by win rate" rather than "old decks included for the historical record". All unupped decks are in this category. There was discussion a few pages back about ways to improve this, but it never really went anywhere.

At any rate, check in the archives and you'll see the state of current unupped deck testing. We could definitely use more. I also have some (currently unpublished (though I'll hopefully correct that soon)) additional unupped antabow stats in bronze/silver I've been meaning to post.

To help with finding the un-upped decks, here are the links to their threads along with which Arena level has them in the OP:

Un-upped Gravity Bow - Bronze, Silver
regen2k's Un-upped Mono-dark - Bronze, Silver
Antabow (aka PVP Graboid Rainbow by Antagon) - Silver (could do Bronze as well but is not listed there as no stats exist yet for that)
Toxic Shriekers - Silver (could do Bronze as well but is not listed there as no stats exist yet for that)
Fastest unupped mono Ai3 farmer - Silver (could do Bronze as well but is not listed there as no stats exist yet for that)

Several hours a day of Arena grinding, eh Pella?  That would be VERY handy to this little experiment if you used some of the above decks (if you don't have/want to build the upgraded decks) to gather stats! 

[Pella]

We are definitely interested in testing unupped decks, and there are several in the OP.

If they're in the OP, they are confined to the Archive spoilers, which I did not check.  At least 75% of the decks with visible titles are 100% upped, and all of the rest are damn close.

Call me foolish if you wish.  I figure that if I have the cards to run a fully upped deck, I'm not wasting my time and energy chasing 11 per win in the Bronze League.  Bronze is in desperate need of unupped or mostly-unupped decks, for obvious reasons.

The Bronze archive lists seven decks.  Of these, two are 100% unupped.  Of those, zero are rareless.  Regen2k9's Unupped MonoDark contains one, and Unupped GravityBow contains FIVE.  Of the decks that rob77dp listed, only two are rareless.

I've been playing Elements for almost five months, and I'm still considered a newbie here.  Perhaps that's the reason I fight so much for newbie-oriented stuff.  Whatever the reason, I find myself a rare champion of their cause.  I perceive that a large portion of our vets use all upped all the time, have no interest in going back, and have even less interest in helping people who can't roll at the same level.  Though few vets, if any, will admit to this thought pattern, "actions speak louder than words".

On a side note, I didn't notice "Bone Collector" the first time I looked at the OP.  That's one of the decks I use on a semi-regular basis.

[CuCN]

I think separate rankings should be kept for unupped decks against bronze and silver.

[ColorlessGreen]

We are definitely interested in testing unupped decks, and there are several in the OP.

If they're in the OP, they are confined to the Archive spoilers, which I did not check.  At least 75% of the decks with visible titles are 100% upped, and all of the rest are damn close.

Call me foolish if you wish.  I figure that if I have the cards to run a fully upped deck, I'm not wasting my time and energy chasing 11 per win in the Bronze League.  Bronze is in desperate need of unupped or mostly-unupped decks, for obvious reasons.

The Bronze archive lists seven decks.  Of these, two are 100% unupped.  Of those, zero are rareless.  Regen2k9's Unupped MonoDark contains one, and Unupped GravityBow contains FIVE.  Of the decks that rob77dp listed, only two are rareless.

I've been playing Elements for almost five months, and I'm still considered a newbie here.  Perhaps that's the reason I fight so much for newbie-oriented stuff.  Whatever the reason, I find myself a rare champion of their cause.  I perceive that a large portion of our vets use all upped all the time, have no interest in going back, and have even less interest in helping people who can't roll at the same level.  Though few vets, if any, will admit to this thought pattern, "actions speak louder than words".

On a side note, I didn't notice "Bone Collector" the first time I looked at the OP.  That's one of the decks I use on a semi-regular basis.

They are confined to the Archive spoilers, as I mentioned. I think this is a problem, but it's the way it is right now.

I share your opinion that we need more details about newbie-friendly decks (which is why I personally tested all of the unupped silver decks, and also personally tested antabow in bronze (though I haven't published those tests yet as I mentioned)). FWIW, my personal definition of newbie-friendly is unupped, shardless, and near-rareless (which I usually define as 1-2 rare weapons). I don't find it unreasonable to have a newbie get a rare weapon or two (though I would find it unreasonable for them to need to get, say, four copies of the same rare weapon, which is why I haven't tested an unupped DBH or anything similar). When I point people at the thread who are asking for unupped decks, I always make sure to mention that monodark works just fine without stiletto (and offer options to replace it), and that antabow works just fine without arsenics (and mention replacing it with poison). However, I posted the decks as I tested them, which was including the rares. FWIW, the accounts I used to test them are "newbie" accounts (i.e. low score, low rare).

However, the reason you see most stuff as fully upped here is that that's basically what's required in order to farm arena effectively. There are a handful of things that can farm bronze (reasonably well) unupped, and exactly two things I've ever seen (antabow, monodark) that can farm silver acceptably unupped. Meanwhile, there's a million upped decks that can farm across all leagues. I would like to see a situation where every deck that can farm arena unupped with acceptable levels of profit is included in this study, but even if we were at that point, there would still be vastly more upped decks than unupped decks.

With regards to upped decks in bronze, nobody else is chasing 11 electrum per win in the bronze league with upped decks either - they're chasing quick rares. An upped deck against bronze is the single fastest method of obtaining rares in the game.

Separating unupped lists from upped lists in the OP would help a lot for visibility/usability purposes.

edit: The other reason there's a lot more upped than unupped is that people who are interested in running stats are generally vets who have upped decks. People like you who are closer to the unupped end of the spectrum but still do a lot of arena grinding are exactly what we need to get more unupped stats. Please participate!

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Quotes:

We are definitely interested in testing unupped decks, and there are several in the OP.

If they're in the OP, they are confined to the Archive spoilers, which I did not check.  At least 75% of the decks with visible titles are 100% upped, and all of the rest are damn close.

Call me foolish if you wish.  I figure that if I have the cards to run a fully upped deck, I'm not wasting my time and energy chasing 11 per win in the Bronze League.  Bronze is in desperate need of unupped or mostly-unupped decks, for obvious reasons.

The Bronze archive lists seven decks.  Of these, two are 100% unupped.  Of those, zero are rareless.  Regen2k9's Unupped MonoDark contains one, and Unupped GravityBow contains FIVE.  Of the decks that rob77dp listed, only two are rareless.

I've been playing Elements for almost five months, and I'm still considered a newbie here.  Perhaps that's the reason I fight so much for newbie-oriented stuff.  Whatever the reason, I find myself a rare champion of their cause.  I perceive that a large portion of our vets use all upped all the time, have no interest in going back, and have even less interest in helping people who can't roll at the same level.  Though few vets, if any, will admit to this thought pattern, "actions speak louder than words".

On a side note, I didn't notice "Bone Collector" the first time I looked at the OP.  That's one of the decks I use on a semi-regular basis.

I am not a vet (not in my own opinion at least) but do have quite a few upgraded cards - specifically groups of them in places that tend to form certain decks (generally I grind upgrades for building specific decks with them).  Therefore, lately I have tended to be mostly 100% upgraded when grinding Arena - even Bronze.

I would like to gently refute the notion that vets or players with lots of score, electrum, upgrades, etc have no need to grind Bronze which led to the conclusion that upgraded decks for Bronze are mostly pointless to track.  I grind almost all Bronze for the time being - and for a very good reason.  Lacking a trusty way to efficiently grind for Special Spins against the higher levels, I find it fastest to get those special spins by loading up a super-quick or effective 100% upgraded deck and whipping through Bronze over-and-over-and-over-and-over.  This is because I am in search of a very specific few rares to complete my "you cannot buy this but also do not need reward codes to get them" collection (shards for me, specifically) and Special Spins are my only shot at those.  (To think the players like myself grinding Bronze with 100% upgraded decks are chasing electrum is inaccurate - for electrum those players go Plat/Gold or FG.)

Next, I would suggest the Antabow or Mono-dark against Bronze (hint:  please test these if you are going to pick a non-upgraded deck to grind Bronze/Silver ) if you want to go un-upgraded.  Silver is iffy unupgraded and Gold/Plat - forget it!

Also, what ColorlessGreen just said, too. 

[kaempfer13]

I used to use this mostly unupped deck to farm bronze and got most of my rares with it:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c9 5c9 5c9 5cq 5cq 5cq 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 7ae 7aj 7ak 7al 7ao 7ao 8pn

However I think the meta change is not in its favor. I dont have stats just want to give Pella something to do.
It basicly counters mono aether and has both dmg and healing, but it also has some possibilities to adapt to special situations.