Pseudoquanta

[Saynt]

^ I can attempt to make the art for copy quanta, just tell me the colors and symbols you want.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Grumble away my fellow lightbulbs, we have been shut off. ^_^

A permanent solution is being discussed.

^Second confirmation, if there are any skeptics.

i see no reason as to why psuedoquanta cards can't be put in crucible, as all psuedoquanta is is normal quanta, but with some special effects, which could be written down, but would take a lot of space and time, so psuedoquanta is used as shorthand.
edit-also, i need someone to do the art for my copy quanta, as i am hopeless with online art thingies.

However, Pseudoelement/quanta cards cram the Crucible's "Other" section - with a lack of Other cards in this game as well as Other being the "Colorless" of this game, it's somewhat reasonable that people are a bit more interested in making cards for Other, and thus Pseudocards would overshadow the actual other cards somewhat, I believe (imagine the Other poll full of Pseudocards - I believe that is trying to be avoided.) Other's a quantum cost too, and it has it's uses with the correct cards.

[Saynt]

Pseudoquanta itself isn't trying to change Other into a specific element though, it's more of a solution to the problem of balancing  quanta. Cards of specific elements using pseudoquanta are also disallowed, I presume, so that isn't the main problem.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Pseudoquanta itself isn't trying to change Other into a specific element though, it's more of a solution to the problem of balancing  quanta. Cards of specific elements using pseudoquanta are also disallowed, I presume, so that isn't the main problem.

It sort of is, actually - please read what I said about Pseudoquanta cards jamming the crucible.

Perhaps Timer's PM to me might be a little helpful on this -

The reason for this is simply because there is no place for them in the poll system. While the "other" poll would make a good spot for it, we cannot have pseudoelements/pseudoquanta cards (especially if it is a series of them) clogging up the other poll leaving no room for the cards that are not pseudo-something.

It may seem rather insignificant to you, but it is actually a very big deal. We're currently working on a solution to this problem, but nothing has been finalized yet. So I'm afraid I must warn you to prepare your pseudoelements/quanta for some rather unhappy times in the near future, as we will be cracking down on them.

Sorry for the inconveniences. ^^;;;

Also, with the current mindset we seem to have, does this mean Other should be stopped using for the most part in favor of Pseudoquanta? That seems to shut a few other opporunities down, IMHO. Or would Other still play a role in ETG besides very cheap cards like upgraded Animate Weapon and Holy Light?

EDIT: And by Other, I mean other as a cost. isn't accepted by the Curators on the table, so I try to avoid using it.

[nerd1]

i believe that psuedoquanta where all on "other" cards, so while you would have to pay the cost of that card that requires psuedoquanta, the card would still be other.

[Essence]

Indeed, if I understand the situation, the problem is this: the Curators are worried that Pseudoquanta will cause programming issues.  The counterclaim is that there are already cards in the Crucible and beyond that essentially already use Pseudoquanta (i.e. "the entire cost of this Other card must come from a single pool of quanta" or "the cost of this ability is paid out of the quanta pool of your Mark", they just don't formalize it and give it a symbol.

Examples: Windmill | Wind Turbine (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19555.0)
Synchronization | Synchronization (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21023.0)


I can't find an example for Apogee quanta, but I know I've seen it before, just written longhand rather than given a symbol.


The argument is that if it's allowed into the Crucible in longhand, it should be allowed when given a shorthand notation as well.

[Hyroen]

The reason for this is simply because there is no place for them in the poll system. While the "other" poll would make a good spot for it, we cannot have pseudoelements/pseudoquanta cards (especially if it is a series of them) clogging up the other poll leaving no room for the cards that are not pseudo-something.

It may seem rather insignificant to you, but it is actually a very big deal. We're currently working on a solution to this problem, but nothing has been finalized yet. So I'm afraid I must warn you to prepare your pseudoelements/quanta for some rather unhappy times in the near future, as we will be cracking down on them.

Sorry for the inconveniences. ^^;;;

If people are preferring Pseudoquanta Other cards as opposed to the current mechanics of quanta Other cards, perhaps that's giving Zanzarino a few hints at something. Elements the Game is a game which is constantly evolving and if a change is made which keeps balance while improving game play for 90% of the people then... uh....

Pseudoquanta need not compete with anything. If it's a better idea, that's a favourite with the people, accept it.

Were the in-game descriptions suitable for more words, trust me, I at least would write out the specifics of each card as opposed to having to come up with symbols. Pseudoquanta is a simple solution to a intricate problem.

[TimerClock14]

To clarify:

I never said that they would not be allowed into the poll system at one point or another. Like OldTrees said, we are working on a permanent solution, so don't turn off those lightbulbs yet.

EDIT: To clarify my previous clarification:
What we are trying to do is create a "home" for all these new/pseudo elements/quanta and things of that nature, rather than having them awkwardly placed in the current poll system.

And for the skeptics:

Card Idea section is basically brainstorming, and brainstorming should never be limited by telling "you cannot do this" because it's really bad for creativity. If users cannot post their pseudo element suggestions anywhere where they make sense, that tells us that the the system failed, not the users. We should find a way for them to be able to post these ideas, preferably without adding any new forum sections.

This is what we are trying to accomplish; we request that you have some patience. ^^;

[Essence]

Excellent.  Much more satisfying to hear.  Thank you.

[nerd1]

To clarify:

I never said that they would not be allowed into the poll system at one point or another. Like OldTrees said, we are working on a permanent solution, so don't turn off those lightbulbs yet.

EDIT: To clarify my previous clarification:
What we are trying to do is create a "home" for all these new/pseudo elements/quanta and things of that nature, rather than having them awkwardly placed in the current poll system.

And for the skeptics:

Card Idea section is basically brainstorming, and brainstorming should never be limited by telling "you cannot do this" because it's really bad for creativity. If users cannot post their pseudo element suggestions anywhere where they make sense, that tells us that the the system failed, not the users. We should find a way for them to be able to post these ideas, preferably without adding any new forum sections.

This is what we are trying to accomplish; we request that you have some patience. ^^;

why not put them in the "other" section, as psuedoquanta cards are simply "other" cards that employ different kinds of quanta?

[Essence]

No offense, but they addressed that pretty clearly already -- they don't want the 'other' category to get overrun by pseudoquanta cards.  That was the entire point of their initial decision.

[Hyroen]

I still don't see the large concern with overrunning the 'other' category by pseudoquanta cards.

The way cards make it far in the system is by having excellent balance, being creative and being a crowd favourite. If pseudoquanta cards are simply better liked, then yes, they're rightfully overrun the category. If Darkness cards end up being the crowd favourites in the Forge, do we worry that too many are in the Armory?

The "Card Ideas and Art" section is for just that, "ideas". Pseudoquanta present a new idea to the table much like any other card that is submitted to the crucible. We're offering a well of idea that may or may not even make it to the game, but in the end, they're simply ideas. This is the essence of why I think this confusion is absurd.