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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg423960#msg423960
« on: November 11, 2011, 11:21:20 pm »
Cards are found in this post: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33609.msg464432#msg464432
Round 2: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33609.msg467346#msg467346
Tiebreakers: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33609.msg470166#msg470166

Identify a problem you think life faces. Propose a card suggestion as a solution to that problem. You will need to provide reasoning. Cards should be judged based on the significance of the problem, how well they address the problem and how well they fit Life.

Rules:
1) Each card suggestion should have its own thread in the smithy.
2) No more than 2 submissions per member. Make sure they are your best work.
3) You can submit any Life card you authored. Smithy, Crucible, Forge, Armory and even Archives are fair game.
4) Comments about specific cards should be kept to those threads. This thread will be for submissions and for general discussion.
5) No art. This is a mechanically motivated competition. Art could bias voting in an undesirable manner.
6) Cards will be given 3 weeks to be refined (to avoid thanksgiving). Voting Begins
7) Voting: Voters can vote for up to a third of the submissions. The Top third (round down) of submissions will be recognized. The top 3 submissions will be recognized in order. Tie breaking may occur.
8 ) While the competition is going on, I will not respond to Ask the Guru questions about specific cards in the competition. I might comment on card suggestions I find interesting but not as the Idea Guru.

Submission format:
Unupped image without art
Upgraded image without art
Notesnotes about the card
ProblemIs this a problem? Why?
SolutionHow does the card address the problem?
Pros and Cons of the card suggestion.
Code: [Select]
[table][tr][td][center][img]Unupped image without art[/img][/center][/td][td][center][img]Upgraded image without art[/img][/center][/td][/tr]
[/table]

[table]
[tr][td]Notes[/td][td]notes about the card[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Problem[/td][td]Is this a problem? Why? [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Solution[/td][td]How does the card address the problem?
Pros and Cons of the card suggestion.[/td][/tr]
[/table]
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg423973#msg423973
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 11:32:02 pm »
NotesSo I thought, what if instead of increasing the power of existing Life decks I was to create a completely new deck type that answers the typical Life problems without having the rest of its strengths? I therefore present you... Treefolks.

These cards need to be evaluated together because they have interacting mechanics and really need to be introduced both to ultimately change things. I will expand upon this concept so keep reading (or skip to the "Solution" paragraph).

Treefolk | Treant and Forest Guardian | Forest Protector both have the passive ability "Treefolk", which grants a vulnerability to fire-based effects. These include, for now, only Fire Bolt and Fire Storm (no Rage Potion, which is based on :fire quanta, but not thematically fire-based): both these cards (and eventually future cards) will deal 2 extra damage to Treefolks. Remember: Fire Bolt deals damage as a single chunck, so you will still need a Fire Bolt from 20 or more :fire quanta to kill a Treefolk or Treant in one hit. Both unupped and upped Forest Guardian, however, dies from a 10 :fire quanta or more Fire Bolt.

The "Treefolk" passive is checked by the ability Earth's Wrath: if five or more creatures with "Treefolk" are on the field, you may destroy your opponent's shield. This is based on Ent's famous wall-breaking power, when angered. If you manage to gather at least five of them, nothing shall stop them.
Note that this is a targeting ability, so it cannot destroy immaterial or protected shields.

Forest Guardian's ability fits the growth theme Life has, and is thematically appropriante for Treefolks / Treants / Ents: you need quite a bit to anger them, but when you do, you're in for trouble.

The main point of this introduction is, however, to give Life a true answer to CC. Both Treefolk and Forest Guardian have relatively high hp. They need a good Fire Bolt or at least a couple CC cards to die. They are not squishy, and they synergize exceptionally well with Mitosis: being resilient low-cost creatures that have either a mass effect (Treefolk's Earth's Wrath) or respectable attack and OTK potential (Forest Guardian) they are easily enhanced and can spawn at least a couple times, gaining even more card advantage.
They have decent (although not overwhelming) synergy with Adrenaline, too: having high hp makes them less vulnerable, taking two cards to destroy a two cards combo, and Forest Protector is a perfect target for Adrenaline at a sweet 8 base atk.

Also, I always liked how other card games had "types" of creatures that interact with each other (namely MtG, but also Yu-Gi-Oh) and always felt this is something Elements can expand upon. For now we have spawning creatures like Firefly Queen and Pharaoh and mini-series like Spiders or Dragons, but that's it.
ProblemLife has got a good deal of problems. However, its situation is as bad as it is because it is very easy to predict and counterpick. Strong shields and creature control are almost always very good ideas when you are up against Life: shields, because by packing PC it is diluting its powerful offense and if it doesn't pack PC, it's dead; CC because all of Life's strategies are creature-based and its strongest creatures are easily killed. This combination destroys most of Life-based decks.

So the main problem Life faces, when compared to strong elements, is its sheer predictability: you can build a deck with the certainty that some of your cards will be useful against a Life based deck, no matter what. This is the reason Life's Firestall is a killer in War environment (it's one of the few effective creatureless Life-based decks), and the reason elements like Death, Fire and Aether are so powerful. Ok, powercards like Phoenix BoneWall and Dimensional Shield help, but they have varied deck types with different checks and counters. Life is, as it is, rather monodimensional.
SolutionSo here comes the idea to introduce a new decktype into Life's arsenal. Of course this is difficult to do with a single card: even if you add 6 copies of it to your deck, no matter how game-changing the card is, you will need to use some other Life cards to complement the strategy. That either leaves you prone to the usual checks and counters or lowers the overall effectiveness of the deck. A possible solution is to add a single card that complements the main strategy (or strategies) of Life with a check to its usual counters or problem cards - for instance something like CC protection. However, this approach ultimately leads to a weakining of Life's decks (which are not that excellent to start with) in order to be more resilient to its usual (effective and more importantly incredibly common) counters. Of course, this helps those decks to achieve a new - potentially more useful - spot inside the metagame, where there aren't as many counters to them; but it also enforces the use of a specific card in most of Life's decks and requires drawing and using that card: something ultimately falls in favor of the standard counters unless the addition is a particularly hard counter, or otherwise useful in all situations. For example, if you added Quintessence to Life's arsenal (or something equivalent) you would have a tool to avoid CC. But you would rely on drawing and then using Quintessence, thus wasting card space, speed and potentially even versatility of your deck.

The addition of two thematically appropriate and cooperating cards changes the metagame on a deeper level. Life would have a deck that has little trouble with most shields, good midrange creatures and good stallbreaking potential, while having the possibility to stall itself thanks to Life's usual healing and possibly Earth's quanta denial. This deck's strengths and weaknesses are practically reversed from the standard Life deck, and halfway splashes are possible (but weaker than both at their respective areas). This of course doesn't fix Life Rush's inherent shield and CC weakness; however an opponent will think twice before sending a CC shield stall against a Life deck now, as Treefolks might come in and smash that deck to the ground.

This solution puts an emphasis on the metagame consideration of using Life as an element, rather than the actual strengths and weaknesses of a certain Life-based deck as it is now, hopefully avoiding the above traps and granting Life new unique intresting cards that round out its potential.

Pros:
- The solution helps every Life deck rather than a specific decktype
- The solution doesn't dilute any Life deck, keeping their strengths
- The solution is rather flavorful (everybody loves Treants!)
- The solution grants a greater degree of new decks than what a straight counter card does

Cons:
- The solution requires to implement two cards
- The solution leaves specific Life decks with the problems they always had
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Offline darkrobe

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg423979#msg423979
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 11:35:31 pm »
Entry #1

NotesInspired by Zebra Stripes, thought to confuse attackers by preventing predators from identifying a single animal, the "Striped" ability allows your striped creatures to protect one another by giving them an extra 25% chance to dodge.

that translates to the following build up:

Number of Striped creatures123456789...1920
Avoidance Rate of striped creatures0%25%44%58%68%76%82%86%90%...99%100%
The Striped Ability gives creatures a chance to dodge direct damage. so lightning, rain of fire, fireshield, devour,sniper, etc can be avoided. Things that do not result in immediate damage cannot be avoided. for example: plague, infect, spine carapace, Reverse time, congeal, etc. This is a active skill and can be lobotomized. As such it does not overlap with things like mitosis or bioluminescence.

ProblemsThe main problem this tries to solve is the fact that life's creatures are incredibly susceptible to the Opponent's CC. Combined with the fact that many of life's most powerful spells and permanents rely on creatures (mitosis, feral bond, etc) this is a crippling problem for many mono life decks. its difficult to go into a match knowing that a single firestorm can wipe out your entire offense and defense in one shot.

SolutionThis card (based off of my Zebra |Elite Zebra (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33581.0.html) card) grants life the ability to protect its creatures by taking advantage of a perceived weakness. many of life's creatures do not have a skill associated with them, this makes them rather bland and unable to give the owner any benefit other that cheap attack). Now we can pull out a spell that will instantly make these cheap but weak creatures into a hard to kill mob.

Pros:
turns a weakness of life (lack of creature skills) into a strength (can use this spell to make them avoid damage)
Protects against Mass CC and Direct CC, thus benefiting creatures in general and creature dependent cards like feral bond.
Synergizes well with life's ability to put out a lot of creatures quickly.

Cons:
cannot be applied to skilled creatures (like ones with mitosis) so they will still be weak.

Entry #2

NotesBeware the mushrooms. If you aren't careful where you tread you may disturb these horrid things. Deadly poisonous, inhaling the spores from these mushrooms will quickly make you wish you hadn't.

so the idea behind these is permanent defense. your opponent has to watch out. If they want to destroy (steal, butterfly effect, etc) one of your permanents they can do so, but they will be punished with poison as disturbing the mushrooms causes them to release deadly spores.

This card protects all your permanents from being stolen or destroyed by your opponent. The poison effect stacks. so with 6 blast spores you can have a whopping 12 poison (24 poison upped) occur as punishment by end game if your opponent decides he wants to mess with your permanents.

Blast spores protect themselves from being damaged, so you cannot simply destroy the stack without experiencing the effect of the poison.

*note: this poison effect only occurs when your opponent messes with your permanents. these being your summon, they do not go off if you destroy one of your own permanents (for example: this does not synergize with unstable gas)

ProblemsThis trys to solve life's susceptibility to Permanent Control. It has good stalling cards, (like spine carapace and feral bond) but no way to protect them, this means that most life decks focus on quick rush of damage. a strategy that makes life prone to any mass CC.

SolutionThis card gives Mono life a unique and original means of permanent protection (much different from PA). Throwing this card in a deck would allow you to focus on stalling with lifes healing skills, while building up damage with the tougher creatures in life's arsenal, like dragons and cockatrice. rather than focusing on the cheap rush aspect of life.

Pros:
Protects all your permanents in a unique way.
lets life develop more stall strategies.

Cons:
cannot be used for offense. only a defensive card.

For more options that I could have entered into this contest please check out my Lifes A Hassle Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33815.0.html)

Offline UTAlan

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg423998#msg423998
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 12:05:31 am »
NotesCreatures in the first 5 slots are untargetable and invisible. Creatures in slots 6-23 are untargetable, but visible. (Idea being that foliage thins out on the edges.)

Does not stack (playing while another is still active simply resets the counter).
ProblemLife's creatures are especially vulnerable to CC, strongly hindering its ability to effectively rush.
SolutionThis Permanent provides protection for Life's creatures from most forms of CC in a cost effective manner.

Pros
Protects from direct CC
Relatively cheap
Lasts 4 turns per card
Provides an additional target for PC, effectively protecting cards like Empathic Bond and Thorn Carapace.

Cons
Very similar to Cloak
Does not protect from mass CC (Rain of Fire, Pandemonium, Plague)

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424003#msg424003
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 12:15:38 am »
Reserved.
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424019#msg424019
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2011, 01:06:46 am »
Entry #1

NotesHere is the whole propose of yonder card.  Life needs some help.  It has some problems with CC.  Enter the shaman.  He gives every creature 3 more max HP.  This includes your opponents too. That's right, no free lunch.  Your creatures will be more resistant to most forms of traditional CC without some crazy non-understandable mechanic.

My first thought is this vitality buff does not effect any other Voodoo Shamans.  I understand that this might be the most confusing part of the creature, but, you know, that way it's more balanced. 

ProblemLife dies to CC.  This allows some protection without crazy mechanics.
SolutionPros: Allows for some good synergy with many other elements.  Allows most of life's creatures to live through a few bouts of CC.  Another creature, because life needs creatures, that is what makes life life.  Creature that protects creatures, totally life.

Cons:The whole point of the the card is to give protection to other creatures and another target for the CC. He will die easily unless you protect him.  Once he dies, the buff goes away and any buffed creatures lose 3 HP, for better or worse.  Rain of Fire still kills all frogs and the shaman, a fractal + shaman + spark deck will explode with CC on the shaman. Lobotomize and other forms do its magic, and it does not work 'well' with mitosis.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424085#msg424085
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2011, 04:41:20 am »
Put, under the format example, the format in [code][/code] tags.

Can we utilize mechanics of non-life cards that we have authored?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424093#msg424093
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2011, 04:53:05 am »
Can we utilize mechanics of non-life cards that we have authored?
Yes. However people should consider how well/poorly those mechanics fit Life when voting.
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"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424111#msg424111
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2011, 05:43:23 am »
Because I think Life's problem is the creatures without effects it has (more than all other elements), I'd like to propose modifications to current cards, and no new cards.

Is this ok in this contest?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424127#msg424127
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 06:43:17 am »
Because I think Life's problem is the creatures without effects it has (more than all other elements), I'd like to propose modifications to current cards, and no new cards.

Is this ok in this contest?
If you think Life needs more creatures with effects, then modifications would not be permitted.
If you think Life needs less creatures without effects, then modifications would be permitted.
I would greatly prefer the first over the second. If you are unsure of the difference err on the side of the first.
If you are sure you fall in the second rather than the first, you should address that in the problem section.
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg424594#msg424594
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2011, 03:09:59 am »
Reserved for submissions [WIP]
1: Rose Bush | Rose Bush
NotesThorns are removed when the creature is targeted instead of the intended effect.

This card can protect your creatures in 2 ways:
1) When you put thorns on your creature you will be taking 2 damage per turn and it would require an additional source of CC to remove the thorns. This encourages your opponent to let you keep your creature and lose the 2 hp per turn.
2) When you put it on your opponent's creature it will deal 2 damage per turn that avoids shields. To remove the thorns your opponent would have to waste a source of CC.

Multiple uses on the same creature will not stack. The second use targets the creature removing the first use.
ProblemLife is too vulnerable to creature control.
Life has 3 win conditions it can employ. It can use creatures, Druidic Staff or stall until the opponent is decked out. Life's creatures have no defenses against CC. Adrenaline and Mitosis even reward the opponent with card advantage when CC is used. Druidic Staff has a small 2|4 attack that is insufficient to defeat an 100hp opponent in less than 50|25 turns. Most decks will deckout before Druidic Staff deals 100 damage. If Druidic Staff is animated then it is a creature win condition. Deckout requires stalling. Stalling requires the defense to remove, disable, mitigate or negate the opposing offense. Thorn Carapace can remove creatures after a while. Jade Shield can disable spell damage and slightly mitigate creature damage. Neither of these slows the opposing offenses enough for a deckout win condition. That leaves Life's healing to be used for stalling. Heal can more than double Life's effective hp however most decks can deal 220 damage easily without decking out. Druidic Staff heals 5hp per turn however to keep up with most offenses multiple Druidic Staves are required rendering them vulnerable to CC. Empathic Bond can heal a lot per turn however it is vulnerable to CC through the creatures it requires. All three of Life's win conditions can be defeated with CC.
SolutionThis card reduces Life's vulnerability to CC by discouraging the opponent from using CC on Life's creatures.
Pros
Protects creatures from targeting CC including most AoEs.
Can be used to deal damage to the opponent.

Cons
The card description can cause confusion to inexperienced players.
Moderate-High cost.
2:
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Life Card Competition. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33609.msg425288#msg425288
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 03:20:04 pm »
NotesAegis
Shield: Reduce damage by 1. Effects that would remove your creatures from the field affect Aegis instead.

An example of an "effect that would remove your creatures from the field" is Rage Potion's effect on a creature with 5 HP. Instead of gaining 5 ATK, losing 5 HP, and dying, the creature targeted by Rage Potion would not gain ATK or lose HP, Aegis would be destroyed, and a death effect would be generated.
If one of your creatures is targeted by Reverse Time, then Aegis will be removed from the field and put on the top of your deck.
If your Schrödinger's Cat's ability "dead/alive" is activated, then Aegis's effect does not initiate because Schrödinger's cat would not be removed from the field.
ProblemThe problem that Aegis solves is Life's vulnerability to CC. Many life cards depend on creatures to work. For example, Mitosis needs a living parent creature, Empathic Bond needs living creatures, "photosynthesis" needs a living Rustler, etc. This aspect of Life cards is one that I wish Life could utilize better. However, the current meta-game is based around creatures, or rather, the nullification or countering of creatures. Hence, most of Life's strategies can be countered by the same thing that counters rushes and domins: CC.
SolutionThe solution is not to nerf CC with the inclusion of CC-protection. This would make rushes and domins more powerful than they already are, and decrease the "reactive" element of elements (cwutididthar?) that makes it fun. If you protect all your creatures from CC, then the opponent does not get a choice of which creature to use CC on; he has no choice at all and must keep the cards in his hand. It's like playing a denial deck, and where's the fun in that? To balance a mechanic with such a large impact on the meta-game, the card would have to be pretty expensive, and not fast enough in most decks.
Aegis not only solves the problem of Life's vulnerability to CC, but also circumvents the problem of mass-quint causing a greater imbalance the meta-game.
NotesConvoy:
Effects that would remove permanents on the same side as the target creature affect the target creature instead.

An example of "effects that would remove permanents" is Deflagration's effect. When you cast Convoy on one of your creatures, then it will die if Deflagration is cast on one of your permanents. However, the permanent targeted by Deflagration is not destroyed.
The effect of the Steal card consists of the "destroy" effect that removes the permanent and the "steal" effect that generates a permanent on the other side. If you cast Convoy on an enemy creature and steal on an enemy permanent, then you will have payed 6 quanta and 2 cards for the same effect as Parallel Universe, Freeze, and Shockwave (10 quanta, 3 cards). Alternatively, the effect that removes permanents could be isolated to the "destroy" effect on the target permanent when steal is used, killing the creature for 6 quanta and 2 cards (as opposed to 3 quanta and 2 cards).
ProblemLife has many thematic and flavorful permanents. However, no matter how effective the permanent is (i.e. 23 creatures and Empathic Bond), it can always be destroyed by one PC card.
SolutionConvoy addresses this problem by giving life an in-element card that trades a bountiful resource--creatures--for protection of key permanents. It also opens up tons of Life duos with Fire, Darkness, and other elements that have permanent control.

 

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