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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg525991#msg525991
« Reply #840 on: July 26, 2012, 08:41:39 pm »
Quote
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Quote
There is no reason why global enchantments would exclude other global enchantments. Likewise there is no reason global enchantments should not strengthen as duplicates are played.
Are there good exceptions such as (and besides) Sunrise | Morning Sun and Nightfall's not stacking to avoid potential balance concerns, or does this rule just apply to global cards in general?
Some themes might not mesh (Sunrise + Nightfall). However most would (Morning Sun + Eclipse). The universal stacking is a guideline. However I see no problem with  :darkness :death :light receiving power during the day of the new moon (re themed nightfall and sunrise to be lunar and solar influences).
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Offline Absol

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526210#msg526210
« Reply #841 on: July 27, 2012, 11:46:27 am »
Just a thought.
What if elemental hate is widespread? As in, almost every element have elemental hate card. (As of now, only Holy Light is elemental hate)
Will it open up more strategy and meta, or just narrow it down?
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526377#msg526377
« Reply #842 on: July 27, 2012, 07:55:47 pm »
Just a thought.
What if elemental hate is widespread? As in, almost every element have elemental hate card. (As of now, only Holy Light is elemental hate)
Will it open up more strategy and meta, or just narrow it down?
The amount of Elemental Hate is unrelated to metagame size and health.

My primary objection to Elemental Hate is that it punishes a player for a choice that I feel should be immune to direct attack. The choice of element is a personal preference of a high enough level that I feel it should be exempt from hate. Similar to how one would reject cards that deal 10 damage to players with a vowel at the beginning of their name. However elements should be different from each other so there is already a necessary indirect attack on that choice.

My second objection is Elemental Hate cards are almost impossible to balance due to their situational nature. The UP/OP Holy Light is a prime example.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526435#msg526435
« Reply #843 on: July 27, 2012, 09:19:43 pm »
I have some people saying Cestus is OP, and some say that it's UP. Can I get your opinion on balance?

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526441#msg526441
« Reply #844 on: July 27, 2012, 09:52:36 pm »
I have some people saying Cestus is OP, and some say that it's UP. Can I get your opinion on balance?
Why did you chose Light? Normally cards are not put in the element that have the most synergy with. This way there is a duo and mono usage that can be simultaneously balanced. (rather than a duo usage that will be strictly worse than the mono usage)

Vampire dagger has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
Cestus has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
The more damage in an hp swing the better.

The most efficient usage of VD is a Trio|Duo
The most efficient usage of Cestus is a Duo|Mono

It is close to balanced. 4|6 attack might be better.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526444#msg526444
« Reply #845 on: July 27, 2012, 09:56:24 pm »
I have some people saying Cestus is OP, and some say that it's UP. Can I get your opinion on balance?
Why did you chose Light? Normally cards are not put in the element that have the most synergy with. This way there is a duo and mono usage that can be simultaneously balanced. (rather than a duo usage that will be strictly worse than the mono usage)

Vampire dagger has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
Cestus has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
The more damage in an hp swing the better.

The most efficient usage of VD is a Trio|Duo
The most efficient usage of Cestus is a Duo|Mono

It is close to balanced. 4|6 attack might be better.
Element was a very hard decision. I ended up with light since that was the highest number of votes for an elemental element in my preliminary poll. I also felt light really deserved a weapon to endow. Forcing crusaders to be duos or endow other cards just felt odd.

Technically, Cestus has slightly less, since it is blocked by shields twice and only works if the user has no shield equipped. However, I believe that attacking twice is worth slightly more than attacking and draining health.

Wouldn't putting it at 4|6 make it too similar to vampire stiletto?




Also, would a card that forced both players to have no equipment be good? Would it be good as a creature, permanent, or spell?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:12:32 pm by furballdn »

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526479#msg526479
« Reply #846 on: July 27, 2012, 10:53:05 pm »
I have some people saying Cestus is OP, and some say that it's UP. Can I get your opinion on balance?
Why did you chose Light? Normally cards are not put in the element that have the most synergy with. This way there is a duo and mono usage that can be simultaneously balanced. (rather than a duo usage that will be strictly worse than the mono usage)

Vampire dagger has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
Cestus has an HP swing equal to double its attack.
The more damage in an hp swing the better.

The most efficient usage of VD is a Trio|Duo
The most efficient usage of Cestus is a Duo|Mono

It is close to balanced. 4|6 attack might be better.
Element was a very hard decision. I ended up with light since that was the highest number of votes for an elemental element in my preliminary poll. I also felt light really deserved a weapon to endow. Forcing crusaders to be duos or endow other cards just felt odd.

Technically, Cestus has slightly less, since it is blocked by shields twice and only works if the user has no shield equipped. However, I believe that attacking twice is worth slightly more than attacking and draining health.

Wouldn't putting it at 4|6 make it too similar to vampire stiletto?




Also, would a card that forced both players to have no equipment be good? Would it be good as a creature, permanent, or spell?

You could vary the stats/cost from 4|6 for 3 :light.

It could be good (shields and weapons are common) although I personally would prefer to use general PC.
I would make it removable with an indefinite duration. Which doesn't really answer your question. Probably a permanent but that choice really depends on the theme.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526505#msg526505
« Reply #847 on: July 27, 2012, 11:25:49 pm »
Ramping it from 3|4 for 3 :light to 4|6 for 3 :light seems like a pretty big jump to me. I'll consider 4|5 atk for 3 :light though.

Could I get your opinion on this?

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526579#msg526579
« Reply #848 on: July 28, 2012, 01:08:05 am »
Ramping it from 3|4 for 3 :light to 4|6 for 3 :light seems like a pretty big jump to me. I'll consider 4|5 atk for 3 :light though.

Could I get your opinion on this?
It is meant to use cards are the primary cost. I would use a lower casting cost. Say 2 :time|1 :time
I would use the community as a measure of the card's balance. Based on current responses I would also raise the hp gained to 15. Making further adjustments based on the community responses should home in on the correct ratio.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526623#msg526623
« Reply #849 on: July 28, 2012, 02:49:48 am »
Interesting thinking experiment: What would the stats of a regular human (You and me as opposed to elementals) be if they were in EtG? You can use other cards, pictures, and gameplay mechanics for reference.

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526631#msg526631
« Reply #850 on: July 28, 2012, 03:20:48 am »
Hrm... Lycantrope, perhaps, is the closest thing we have to an 'ordinary human' to me, since I consider the  :darkness quanta cost the key to 'transforming' into the wolf form.
Lycantrope being another name for 'werewolf'...As far as Gravition Mercenary, Crusader, and any other 'humanoids' I may be missing...There's a good deal of variety in their powers.
skeleton, and for that matter, mummy, are undead creature reanimated by necromantic energies. Mummies specifically, as per their relationship to Pharohs, in that they are the mummified remains of the latter, and skeleton, which is a more general 'reanimated bones'...Ok, got off-topic there.
Anyhow, Lycantrope-1\1 in 'human' form, 6/6 in werewolf form, as the mythos goes, this shows a considerable increase in power.
Mercenary, Crusader, and possibly immortal and pisons, wildly vary in ability: I suspect that good equipment and arms training would enable a human to surpass the baseline 1/1 limit that human strength is worth. The hard part, would be determining how say, a handgun would measure up to say, the savage might of a ruby dragon. There's also seems to be proof that depending on said training/equipment, one could demonstrate abilities that would translate into activatable and passive powers, such as Airborne, or Ranged (if that is in fact a passive ability.) Now, as for what degree is where...I don't know, but I think something we CAN assume is thus:
Normal range of human ability is 1/1.
With abnormally high levels of endurance and strength, one could perhaps rise to be a 2/2.
Armor, if Graviton mercenary is any indication, allows a boost up to 2/5 (this is assuming graviton mercenary is a 'trained' human, as opposed to a normal person in a 'powersuit'.
weaponry...This is the interesting part: our weaponry has advanced in technological scope, but the comparison point is 'Elementals'. Magic may not only even the odds, so to speak, but prove superior and as a result, I don't know how well our 'machine guns' and other such weaponry might compare. As a result...I'd say that barring the use of vehicles, but only going off of a standard infantry, we'd measure out to about...
4/3, ranged passive.
your normal infantryman is used to armor that I'd guess to be about +1 to his native 2/2, and as for the 4 attack...I presume that a machinegun or some other such weapon would indeed allow a decent degree of damage. Of course, without actual factual information on what these 'arbitrary' numbers translate to...I'm really just reaching.
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg526632#msg526632
« Reply #851 on: July 28, 2012, 03:23:36 am »
Technically, pre-Lycanthropy Werewolf should be a human...

 

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