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Offline Zaealix

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg435726#msg435726
« Reply #132 on: December 06, 2011, 08:58:50 pm »
Doh! Again, I Did Not Do The Research. :o
Ok..And Storm wind covers an idea I had for an  :air spell, but it's more versatile. Soooo...Yea.
Out of card ideas for the time being, will be back with more eventually.
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Offline darkrobe

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg436131#msg436131
« Reply #133 on: December 08, 2011, 01:02:39 am »
Could I get your thoughts on this variant.

 Quantum Lotus | Quantum Lotus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34542.0.html)

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg436141#msg436141
« Reply #134 on: December 08, 2011, 01:58:18 am »
Could I get your thoughts on this variant.

 Quantum Lotus | Quantum Lotus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34542.0.html)
Play Quantum Lotus. Deny your opponent quanta while you get 1 turn to spend your quanta or donate it to the Quantum Lotuses. Harvest +1|+1s from your unending supply of Quantum Lotuses.

Summary:
1 card, 4 :life causes
Opponent: No quanta
You: Only the quanta produced last turn
You: Offense that grows without additional quanta investment from you

The card is too powerful for any reasonable casting cost.

Note: Typically it is unwise balancewise to take a cost mechanic of a card and turn it into a weapon without adjusting the balance.
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Offline darkrobe

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg436142#msg436142
« Reply #135 on: December 08, 2011, 02:03:44 am »
are you saying the card is unfixable? or that the card is too powerful in its current form?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg436154#msg436154
« Reply #136 on: December 08, 2011, 02:43:26 am »
are you saying the card is unfixable? or that the card is too powerful in its current form?
It can be fixed by having the user pay for the benefit or by reducing the benefit until it is paid for by the current cost.

However a versatile 1 card win is unlikely to be both balanced and usable in EtG.
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Offline darkrobe

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg436909#msg436909
« Reply #137 on: December 10, 2011, 04:07:21 am »
Quantum Lotus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34542.0.html)

Still too powerful?

I removed the doubling in favor of health growth, and gave the skill a poison cost.

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437073#msg437073
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2011, 05:06:16 pm »
Quantum Lotus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34542.0.html)

Still too powerful?

I removed the doubling in favor of health growth, and gave the skill a poison cost.


It is no longer too powerful.
Is it different enough from a Devourer?
Is consume worth the 1 card + 2 :life + 1 turn + 1 :death + duo [6q] cost?
Is the hp gain relevant or useful?
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Offline darkrobe

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437081#msg437081
« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2011, 05:42:17 pm »
lol. Doh. now I have gone too far the other way!  ;D

As far as the HP gain. The gain determines how much benefit you get from consume. It is also useful in a life deck because you can attach mitosis to one of these and eventually it willbe very hard to kill because of its high health. and will spawn more and more loti.

It is the reverse of devourer. The skill on devourer makes them hard to kill and the benefit is attached to the absorb. Here, the hard to kill is attached to the absorb and th benefit is attached to the skill. I dont really know if that makes it substantially different from devourer. But it is certainly thematically different. I could still have It drain from both players to make it stand out more I suppose/ play with the stats and the health gain which affects consume.

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437270#msg437270
« Reply #140 on: December 11, 2011, 04:03:42 am »
Out of curiousity:
What are you thoughts on the role of Vanilla Creatures in ETG?
Also, do you believe True Vanilla Creatures (AKA creatures with NO special abilities except for certain 'natural' passives such as Airborne) have an important role in ETG?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437305#msg437305
« Reply #141 on: December 11, 2011, 05:53:20 am »
Out of curiousity:
What are you thoughts on the role of Vanilla Creatures in ETG?
Also, do you believe True Vanilla Creatures (AKA creatures with NO special abilities except for certain 'natural' passives such as Airborne) have an important role in ETG?
Vanilla creatures serve 3 roles in EtG that I can see.
Padding: In the beginning of the game, Zanz had to create a lot of cards in a short amount of time to be able to start the game. Vanilla cards and reusing mechanics was an understandable shortcut.
Simplicity: EtG tries to appeal to a broad range of players. Players vary in the degree of complexity they enjoy. You can't have a card simpler than a vanilla creature.
Expansion: Vanilla cards are a good platform to expand into cards like Lucierfin or Mitosis (no skill lost).

So they are important but Zanz has them well in hand and does not need suggestions for more.
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Offline plastiqe

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437342#msg437342
« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2011, 07:18:38 am »
Oh great and enlightened Idea Guru!  Bestow upon me thy vast wisdom, for I am but an unworthy fledgling designee.  Here I recount the 7 noble truths of Elements I have discovered through years of meditation.  Are these assumptions valid?

Having a lot of quanta stored up should be good for every Element.

Rainbow quanta production is OP.

CC that ignores creature defenses is OP.

Granting immortality + activated ability is OP.

No creature left behind, each one should have an ability.

The most expensive cards should be the best cards.

Instead of always being "better", Upgrades should mean "more".

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34667.0.html

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.msg462651#msg462651

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg437365#msg437365
« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2011, 08:28:18 am »
Oh great and enlightened Idea Guru!  Bestow upon me thy vast wisdom, for I am but an unworthy fledgling designee.  Here I recount the 7 noble truths of Elements I have discovered through years of meditation.  Are these assumptions valid?
No, but they betray(reveal) thought and study.
Quote
Having a lot of quanta stored up should be good for every Element.
Not necessarily. To gain an advantage one must have opportunity and be able to pay the cost. Having a store of quanta enables the cost to be paid but their would need to be an outlet for that to be worthwhile. In the absence of expensive outlets players use more cheaper outlets and less quanta production. Excessive quanta production is just as problematic as deficient quanta production. The broader the band between deficient and excessive the more variety there is in gameplay. From a design point of view this implies that adding expensive and cheap outlets helps diversify the game if it can be done with no side effects. One of Fractal's main additions to the game is in this area.
Quote
Rainbow quanta production is OP.
QT: Probably not. A standard has to be made between rainbow and mono decks. A theoretical ideal standard would be 2.5 :rainbow per turn. Unfortunately 1/2 quanta is a contradiction in terms. The 3 :rainbow per turn based standard has made a respectable metagame.
Nova/Supernova/Immolation: Perhaps. It too sets a standard between long term and short term quanta producers. Standard producer the backbone of metagame structure and thus do not become OP as easily. A different standard might have a larger metagame. That would be reason to change Supernova but would not imply Supernova is OP.
To reiterate: Standards can be suboptimally designed but cannot be OP/UP.
Quote
CC that ignores creature defenses is OP.
Not unless your definition of creature defenses includes: HP, Immateriality, 0 attack/momentum, first 5 slots/water. Flooding is not OP.
Quote
Granting immortality + activated ability is OP.
No. There is a cost involved to balance the increased resilience of the creature.
Quote
No creature left behind, each one should have an ability.
No. Abilities have value. All value should be paid for in the cost. Sometimes you want the creature with the best stats for its cost. A creature without an ability should have better stats for its cost.
Also: Vanilla creatures are useful for expanding the audience to include vanilla only players.
Quote
The most expensive cards should be the best cards.
No. The most expensive cards should be the cards with the most powerful effects. However size is not the only important factor when identifying the important cards. Sometimes how soon a card can be played is important. Cards that appear innocent will survive longer.
Quote
Instead of always being "better", Upgrades should mean "more".
Upgraded cards get a free 1-2 quanta cost reduction or the equivalent. When the unupped and upgraded cards are comparable the upgraded should be better in the general case. +1 attack +1 cost would qualify as more but would not qualify as an upgrade. -1 attack -2 cost would not qualify as more but would qualify as an upgrade.
Quote
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34667.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.msg462651#msg462651
Too much to answer in those links.
Your directional balance estimations (OP or UP) appear to be fairly accurate though you are less accurate the closer the card is to balanced. You tend to try to complicate things as your solution. You are unaware of some important coding details (cards cannot cost X :entropy, cannot manually target twice during the same effect) which can be fixed by asking Xenocidius in his Coding Q&A thread.
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