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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474881#msg474881
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 10:27:28 pm »
i would put it at 14 :time.. just me... pretty good idea
You forget it also drains.  If it cost as much as 14, it'd simply be too expensive to be used properly.  And considering Fractal, I see no real need to go above 11.  12, maybe, but not 14.

Offline TheManuz

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474893#msg474893
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 11:05:17 pm »
Just to throw a few numbers at the whole bolts-usage thing.

Upped Firebolt needs 39 quanta to deal 105 Damage with Recursion. 38 Quanta deals 99 damage.
39 = 12
36 = 12
33 = 12
30 = 12
27 = 9
24 = 9
21 = 9
18 = 6
15 = 6
12 = 6
9 = 3
6 = 3
3 = 3
0 = 3
(105)

And Upped Firebolt needs 57 Quanta to reach 204 Damage, for viability against FG like foes.
57 = 18
54 = 18
51 = 18
48 = 15
45 = 15
42 = 15

I'm not sure if this interaction is nearly as powerful with unupped firebolt, but remember that in a Firebolt OTK deck either unupped or upped you could play most of your firebolts and then just recursion the last one to get the maximal benefit.
I think the cost could increase by X at each recursion step.
For X = 1,starting at 0, Fire lance (cost=1).
quantadamagecost
75241+1
73242+1
70243+1
66214+1
61215+1
55186+1
48157+1
40158+1
31129+1
21910+1
10611+1
65 quanta (more or less) needed for an OTK (damage>100).
Maybe for x = 2?

EDIT: fixed table!  ::)

Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474899#msg474899
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 11:15:16 pm »
Only problem is, if we nerf all of this card's interactions, it's useless. Reaching 57 :fire and 11 :time, for example, isn't easy against FGs - SoSa is out of the picture, since it drains all quanta. I suppose you could stall with 6 sundials, but it's still hard to create enough quanta in time.

I'd say it's balanced to possibly UP. Seems like it could be an incredibly fun card in some cases though. Especially with the shards -

Recursion + SoD: Suddenly, you have 100 more health.
Recursion + SoR + Time creature: Don't even know what to say about this one :D
Recursion + SoSa: The epic way to die.
Recursion + SoFr: All of your airborne creatures have a 200% chance to critically hit.
Recursion + SoSe: Potentially endless. (Seriously, if you keep on getting enough SNs from SoSe, this could be a looong turn. ;) )


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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474900#msg474900
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 11:16:47 pm »
Only problem is, if we nerf all of this card's interactions, it's useless. Reaching 57 :fire and 11 :time, for example, isn't easy against FGs - SoSa is out of the picture, since it drains all quanta. I suppose you could stall with 6 sundials, but it's still hard to create enough quanta in time.

I'd say it's balanced to possibly UP. Seems like it could be an incredibly fun card in some cases though. Especially with the shards -

Recursion + SoD: Suddenly, you have 100 more health.
Recursion + SoR + Time creature: Don't even know what to say about this one :D
Recursion + SoSa: The epic way to die.
Recursion + SoFr: All of your airborne creatures have a 200% chance to critically hit.
Recursion + SoSe: Potentially endless. (Seriously, if you keep on getting enough SNs from SoSe, this could be a looong turn. ;) )
Not with Singularities ;)
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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474916#msg474916
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 11:59:25 pm »
Oh. An increase at each recursion step would make more sense, although that also makes it directly inferior to a whole host of cards in a lot of cases (such as fractal and mitosis), and pretty much all the cases where it can be useful cruxes on Rainbow generation of larger pools of quanta.

On the other hand, assuming you can pool up a huge amount of quanta, it grants heavy card advantage, and I'm not sure what benefits are possible with something like this mainly because with an additive recursion the quanta costs would get prohibitively expensive, but potential can be seen.

Ex: A Time/Light stall deck with Eternities for rewinding creatures, Recursion, and Hourglasses, RoL's for Hope shield stacking, and massive quanta generation, Miracles, SoD's, and Sanctuaries. Recursion has Synergy with many cards. RoL's to get a field full to simulate fractal hope, + huge quanta gen buffs for future recursions. SoD recursion to get to instant 500 HP to work as a quasi-stoneskin/miracle stall, and Sanctuary Recursion to get 5-7 extra Sancs on the field for massive healing.

(Also remember that for the fire bolt deck, you could use the other fire bolts early to get extra bolts at the top end, and that something like Faren will likely have done at least chip damage, so it's probably closer to 40-50 than ~65)

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474951#msg474951
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 01:54:35 am »
Here is a table for unupped stone skin recursion for the record (note, hp caps at 500 i believe):
 :earth | hp gain
10      5
15      15
20      30
25      50
30      75
35      105
40      140
45      180
50      225
55      275
60      330
65      390
70      455
75      525
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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474954#msg474954
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 01:57:46 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474962#msg474962
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 02:14:38 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
It would cost 3/2 :entropy .  It'd also make a lot of Singularities.

Offline Sevs

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474986#msg474986
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 03:32:52 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
It would cost 3/2 :entropy .  It'd also make a lot of Singularities.
Singularity OTK! chimera Antimatter lol
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Offline Drake_XIVTopic starter

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474995#msg474995
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 04:04:25 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
It would cost 3/2 :entropy .  It'd also make a lot of Singularities.
Singularity OTK! chimera Antimatter lol
But you wouldn't have the :entropy to AM the Chimera.

Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474996#msg474996
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 04:07:51 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
It would cost 3/2 :entropy .  It'd also make a lot of Singularities.
Singularity OTK! chimera Antimatter lol
But you wouldn't have the :entropy to AM the Chimera.
purple nymph + SoR
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
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Re: Recursion | Recursion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37720.msg474998#msg474998
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 04:13:05 am »
Will nova cost extra  :entropy or extra  :rainbow since it has no cost originally?
With even a little bit of  :entropy this could make a tremendous amount of quanta.
It would cost 3/2 :entropy .  It'd also make a lot of Singularities.
Singularity OTK! chimera Antimatter lol
But you wouldn't have the :entropy to AM the Chimera.
purple nymph + SoR
No, the Nymph will be taken in with the Chimera.

 

anything
blarg: