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Offline artimies7

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026484#msg1026484
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 01:01:02 am »
This mechanic is thematically tied to Fire, I agree.
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Offline Tirear

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026747#msg1026747
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 02:00:59 am »
Haha. As I explained, by default current attack resets to full attack after each attack, whether successful or not, so full attack is clearly not a place to store the variable "original attack", as that would mean that Temper is not cumulative.
Except that doesn't happen. Go play a steam machine. Look at its stats - it will have 0 full attack and 0 current attack. Use steam. It now has 0 full attack and 5 current attack. Let it attack. According to your explanation, it should get set to 0 attack. Instead, it now has 0 full attack and 4 current attack. Lobotomize it. Let it attack again. It will still have 0 full attack and 4 current attack. It has greater current attack then full attack, and we have removed the special circumstances, and now nothing changes.

Go play a wyrm. Dive it, and look at its stats. It now has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. PU it. Look at the clone's stats. It also has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. Let them attack. The first wyrm will be reduced to 3 full attack, 3 current attack. The second one still has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. Why is that? It is because attack does not reset by default, it is specific to having used dive earlier in the turn, which the second wyrm hasn't done.

Go play an antlion. Burrow it. it now has 2 full attack and 1 current attack. Play SoP and wait a turn. It now has 3 full attack and 2 current attack. End SoP and unburrow. It now has 3 full attack and 4 current attack. Let it attack. It still has 3 full attack and 4 current attack.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026799#msg1026799
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 09:28:08 am »
Haha. As I explained, by default current attack resets to full attack after each attack, whether successful or not, so full attack is clearly not a place to store the variable "original attack", as that would mean that Temper is not cumulative.
Except that doesn't happen. Go play a steam machine. Look at its stats - it will have 0 full attack and 0 current attack. Use steam. It now has 0 full attack and 5 current attack. Let it attack. According to your explanation, it should get set to 0 attack. Instead, it now has 0 full attack and 4 current attack. Lobotomize it. Let it attack again. It will still have 0 full attack and 4 current attack. It has greater current attack then full attack, and we have removed the special circumstances, and now nothing changes.

Go play a wyrm. Dive it, and look at its stats. It now has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. PU it. Look at the clone's stats. It also has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. Let them attack. The first wyrm will be reduced to 3 full attack, 3 current attack. The second one still has 3 full attack and 6 current attack. Why is that? It is because attack does not reset by default, it is specific to having used dive earlier in the turn, which the second wyrm hasn't done.

Go play an antlion. Burrow it. it now has 2 full attack and 1 current attack. Play SoP and wait a turn. It now has 3 full attack and 2 current attack. End SoP and unburrow. It now has 3 full attack and 4 current attack. Let it attack. It still has 3 full attack and 4 current attack.

#mindblown

Thanks for clearing that up, Tirear.
Yeah, ET, you can change the text back to what it originally was, and that would probably be better because it means you can buff Lupin.

Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026852#msg1026852
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 03:01:15 pm »
What is the difference of the current wording and the previous?

The notes explain the intent of the skill.
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026854#msg1026854
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2012, 03:32:16 pm »
What is the difference of the current wording and the previous?

The notes explain the intent of the skill.

Well, there's no difference in mechanics, but the fixed wording is a bit more ambiguous than the old wording.

Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026860#msg1026860
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 05:01:58 pm »
Updated. Thank goodness I know how to search the history of a Sync board.
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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026861#msg1026861
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2012, 05:08:28 pm »
How does it work with adrenaline? Does it get +3/+0 if its adrenalined and the opponent has something like a dim shield?

Offline EmeraldTigerTopic starter

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026863#msg1026863
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2012, 05:17:22 pm »
I am not sure, but I think adrenaline against 1 dim shield would give +9 at the end of the shield's doom clock.
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1026972#msg1026972
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2012, 01:49:41 am »
So then Adrenaline + Sundial would give it +5 attack?

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1027006#msg1027006
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2012, 05:05:11 am »
I ran some numbers via the Adrenaline  Calculator and if starting attack is 4-8 three attacks happen, 9-15 two attacks, 16 or higher only one attack. I said earlier
I am not sure, but I think adrenaline against 1 dim shield would give +9 at the end of the shield's doom clock.
but i was wrong.

Here is what I think would happen: First turn 4 miss +1 miss +1 miss +1 = 7
                                                         Second Turn 7 miss +1 miss +1 miss +1 = 10
                                                         Third Turn 10 miss +1 miss +1 = 12

So then Adrenaline + Sundial would give it +5 attack?
Doesn't Sundial only stop attacks 1 player turn? if yes then + 3 would be the result.
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1027101#msg1027101
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2012, 02:14:51 pm »
Nah, sundial temporarily sets all creature attacks to 0, which means adrenalined creatures do 5 0-ATK attacks.

Offline shadow303

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Re: Nitrous Lupin | Nitrous Lupin https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45421.msg1027135#msg1027135
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2012, 04:21:03 pm »
Looks like a good idea, even though with adrenaline this card could get really strong.

What I was thinking.. what if this gets hit by antimatter? Would an attack with negative att be considered a successful attack (and therefore cause an immediate reset to the original stats) or rather a failed attack and therefore in a +1 for every subsequent attack?

 

blarg: