The Underground Upgrade (Series)

[Kamietsu]

Welcome to the Underground.

The Underground is not a specific place, a building, or under the ground. The Underground is a network, a community, one that has turned its back to the constrains of regular society life. Life may not be ideal in The Underground, but it's a method of living, coping, and getting by of  their own terms. They make due mostly thanks to their own Black Market. This is not to be misunderstood as the Black Market the is most commonly known. The Underground has goods that don't exist anywhere else. How they obtain their goods is a secret only they themselves know, but no one complains. So please, turn down that deserted alley and visit The Underground.

One specific feature of The Underground's Black Market is the Underground Upgrade. This upgrade is a cheaper alternative to the classic upgrading system. The Underground Upgrade  lets you upgrade a card for various prices, depending on the card, but what you get isn't the normal upgrade. This upgrade is far different. This new, cheaper upgrade isn't perfect. Some cards come out better than their main upgrade form, while some come out not as good, or just completely different. What card will you upgrade?

Black Market Listings coming soon!

NAME: Lava Golem ELEMENT: Fire COST: 5 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5|1 TEXT: : growth Lava Golem gains +2/+2	NAME: Magma Destroyer ELEMENT: Fire COST: 6 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 5|1 TEXT: Build Up: Magma Destroyer gains +2/+2 every turn.   : Release. 2 damage to all opponent’s creatures. Magma Destroyer gains -10/-10

ART: Fotosynthesis IDEA: Kamietsu(Upgraded) NOTES: Original: SERIES: Underground Upgrade

NAME: ***Insert name*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element*** COST: ***Insert cost*** TYPE: ***Insert type*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp*** TEXT: ***Insert card text***	NAME: ***Insert name (upgraded)*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element (upgraded)*** COST: ***Insert cost (upgraded)*** TYPE: ***Insert type (upgraded)*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp (upgraded)*** TEXT: ***Insert card text (upgraded)***

ART: ***Insert artist name*** IDEA: ***Insert card maker name*** NOTES: ***Insert additional information*** SERIES: ***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***

NAME: ***Insert name*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element*** COST: ***Insert cost*** TYPE: ***Insert type*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp*** TEXT: ***Insert card text***	NAME: ***Insert name (upgraded)*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element (upgraded)*** COST: ***Insert cost (upgraded)*** TYPE: ***Insert type (upgraded)*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp (upgraded)*** TEXT: ***Insert card text (upgraded)***

ART: ***Insert artist name*** IDEA: ***Insert card maker name*** NOTES: ***Insert additional information*** SERIES: ***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***

NAME: ***Insert name*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element*** COST: ***Insert cost*** TYPE: ***Insert type*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp*** TEXT: ***Insert card text***	NAME: ***Insert name (upgraded)*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element (upgraded)*** COST: ***Insert cost (upgraded)*** TYPE: ***Insert type (upgraded)*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp (upgraded)*** TEXT: ***Insert card text (upgraded)***

ART: ***Insert artist name*** IDEA: ***Insert card maker name*** NOTES: ***Insert additional information*** SERIES: ***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***

[OldTrees]

Upgraded cards are balanced against each other. They exist at a set standard. While an upgraded card is superior to an unupped card it has no such advantage against another regularly upgraded card.

The upgrade system that currently exists is not unbalancing because is improves all cards about the same (or at least is intended to be close)

This upgrade is far different. This new, cheaper upgrade isn't perfect. Some
cards come out better than their main upgrade form, while some come out not as good

A variable upgrade system like Underground would have an unbalancing effect. Can you justify this unbalancing effect? An alternate upgrade may be a good idea but please create an even upgrade system not a variable one.

[Kamietsu]

The variable upgrade is based on the cards. Not all upgrades are even, despite being balanced, against each other. Some get ability upgrades, while others just get a small casting cost reduction. When I said variable, I meant almost mirror to how the upgrades already are, they will just be done differently when compared to the actual upgrades.

And when some come out better than their normal upgrade form, it's mostly a matter of opinion since all the upgrades will differ from the current upgrades. Some might seem better while others might seem not as good.

[agentflare]

I agree with OldTrees

Elements has a formula to determine card cost. Maybe the Black Market could work like Tyrant's pack system.
Like trade upped card to get a pack of underground cards.

Love the idea though.

[OldTrees]

The variable upgrade is based on the cards. Not all upgrades are even, despite being balanced, against each other. Some get ability upgrades, while others just get a small casting cost reduction. When I said variable, I meant almost mirror to how the upgrades already are, they will just be done differently when compared to the actual upgrades.

And when some come out better than their normal upgrade form, it's mostly a matter of opinion since all the upgrades will differ from the current upgrades. Some might seem better while others might seem not as good.

If they are meant to mirror how the upgrades already are then the upgrade cost should be equivalent. (although you might have ideas for multiple currencies?)

[Kamietsu]

The variable upgrade is based on the cards. Not all upgrades are even, despite being balanced, against each other. Some get ability upgrades, while others just get a small casting cost reduction. When I said variable, I meant almost mirror to how the upgrades already are, they will just be done differently when compared to the actual upgrades.

And when some come out better than their normal upgrade form, it's mostly a matter of opinion since all the upgrades will differ from the current upgrades. Some might seem better while others might seem not as good.

If they are meant to mirror how the upgrades already are then the upgrade cost should be equivalent. (although you might have ideas for multiple currencies?)

No, they probably won't mirror the casting costs, ability costs, attack, HP. They will change based on whatever the new upgrade is in a (hopefully) balanced way. Such as, Pulverizer might not get it's Ability cost reduced, instead something else might happen and the casting cost would reflect that. Just an example, lets say Pulvy can destory two cards with one activation, either the ability or the casting cost would changed appropriately. (that's not what the change will be I'm pretty sure, just an example)

The upgrade mirroring is in the overall balance and not the exact specifics of each card. And as such, the upgrading price will be somewhat dependent on the initial buy cost of that card. So an Underground Pillar will be cheaper than an Underground Crimson Dragon.

I agree with OldTrees

Elements has a formula to determine card cost. Maybe the Black Market could work like Tyrant's pack system.
Like trade upped card to get a pack of underground cards.

Love the idea though.

I don't recall seeing such a formula. I know of the one OT has devised, but I do not believe that is the actual(if one exists) formula for it as governed by Zanz. I could be wrong on that though.

[OldTrees]

The variable upgrade is based on the cards. Not all upgrades are even, despite being balanced, against each other. Some get ability upgrades, while others just get a small casting cost reduction. When I said variable, I meant almost mirror to how the upgrades already are, they will just be done differently when compared to the actual upgrades.

And when some come out better than their normal upgrade form, it's mostly a matter of opinion since all the upgrades will differ from the current upgrades. Some might seem better while others might seem not as good.

If they are meant to mirror how the upgrades already are then the upgrade cost should be equivalent. (although you might have ideas for multiple currencies?)

The upgrade mirroring is in the overall balance and not the exact specifics of each card. And as such, the upgrading price will be somewhat dependent on the initial buy cost of that card. So an Underground Pillar will be cheaper than an Underground Crimson Dragon.

The Cost to underground upgrade a pillar to an underground pillar should mirror the cost to upgrade a pillar to a tower. So the cost of an underground upgrade should be equivalent to 1500 but might not be 1500 .

Off Topic:

I agree with OldTrees

Elements has a formula to determine card cost. Maybe the Black Market could work like Tyrant's pack system.
Like trade upped card to get a pack of underground cards.

Love the idea though.

I don't recall seeing such a formula. I know of the one OT has devised, but I do not believe that is the actual(if one exists) formula for it as governed by Zanz. I could be wrong on that though.

Zanz has not shared his method of theoretical balance with us other than the cards in the game and that cards in development start as slightly OP when introduced to the community.

PS: That old theory of mine is now obsolete. A new one will be posted soon.

[Kamietsu]

The variable upgrade is based on the cards. Not all upgrades are even, despite being balanced, against each other. Some get ability upgrades, while others just get a small casting cost reduction. When I said variable, I meant almost mirror to how the upgrades already are, they will just be done differently when compared to the actual upgrades.

And when some come out better than their normal upgrade form, it's mostly a matter of opinion since all the upgrades will differ from the current upgrades. Some might seem better while others might seem not as good.

If they are meant to mirror how the upgrades already are then the upgrade cost should be equivalent. (although you might have ideas for multiple currencies?)

The upgrade mirroring is in the overall balance and not the exact specifics of each card. And as such, the upgrading price will be somewhat dependent on the initial buy cost of that card. So an Underground Pillar will be cheaper than an Underground Crimson Dragon.

The Cost to underground upgrade a pillar to an underground pillar should mirror the cost to upgrade a pillar to a tower. So the cost of an underground upgrade should be equivalent to 1500 but might not be 1500 .

I haven't defined a price to upgrade yet, mostly because I haven't figured out where/how Underground Upgrading will take place. I had thought of it as a sort of rare upgrade place that you have to be lucky/work at to find. Sort of like obtaining a rare card, you just can't click an option and use the Underground Upgrade feature.

[OldTrees]

The Cost to underground upgrade a pillar to an underground pillar should mirror the cost to upgrade a pillar to a tower. So the cost of an underground upgrade should be equivalent to 1500 but might not be 1500 .

I haven't defined a price to upgrade yet, mostly because I haven't figured out where/how Underground Upgrading will take place. I had thought of it as a sort of rare upgrade place that you have to be lucky/work at to find. Sort of like obtaining a rare card, you just can't click an option and use the Underground Upgrade feature.

A rare upgrade place would be an additional kind of currency (luck). The total of luck, and other currencies that you decide later to be the price will be set equivalent to 1500 .

[ZephyrPhantom]

Reminds me of the Alternate Story Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20252.0.html). (Currently Archived by me until I find the time and energy to revive it.)

Also, thanks to the above series I've seen some serious flak get thrown at the idea of alternate upgrades. How would your method of coding the "luck-based" upgrade work?

[Kamietsu]

The Cost to underground upgrade a pillar to an underground pillar should mirror the cost to upgrade a pillar to a tower. So the cost of an underground upgrade should be equivalent to 1500 but might not be 1500 .

I haven't defined a price to upgrade yet, mostly because I haven't figured out where/how Underground Upgrading will take place. I had thought of it as a sort of rare upgrade place that you have to be lucky/work at to find. Sort of like obtaining a rare card, you just can't click an option and use the Underground Upgrade feature.

A rare upgrade place would be an additional kind of currency (luck). The total of luck, and other currencies that you decide later to be the price will be set equivalent to 1500 .

I suppose you could look at it that way. Overall, Underground Upgrading should balance with regular upgrading price.

Reminds me of the Alternate Story Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20252.0.html). (Currently Archived by me until I find the time and energy to revive it.)

Also, thanks to the above series I've seen some serious flak get thrown at the idea of alternate upgrades. How would your method of coding the "luck-based" upgrade work?

Ah... I didn't know anyone else had thought about Alternate Upgrading ^^; Didn't mean to steal your idea there. But I thought of this idea more like Shadow Pokemon from Pokemon Colosseum DX. I think, anyway. i never fully really playing that game ^^;

[Nepycros]

Som the upgrade system you're going for is basically just a Mutation?