*Author

Offline PineappleTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4105
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Pineapple hides under a Cloak.
  • Master of Cake
  • Awards: Silver DonorSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg327401#msg327401
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 05:31:02 am »
If they have 5+ HP, note that there's already an extra quanta cost for the same amount of damage. HP matters.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg327404#msg327404
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2011, 05:39:50 am »
If they have 5+ HP, note that there's already an extra quanta cost for the same amount of damage. HP matters.
That is a good point.
I personally would use Growth, Lycanthropy, or Blessing to avoid that.
(also unupped is better for Voodoo Doll: 16 Voodoo damage + 12 attack -4 healing = 24 damage vs 20 Voodoo damage + 10 attack - 10 attack = 20 damage)

All in all I think this justifies a 3|1 cost.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline SnoWeb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1575
  • Country: fr
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: War #2 Winner - Team Entropy
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg327442#msg327442
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2011, 08:52:07 am »
I'm of the opinion that all elements should have a buff card. However, :fire (rage potion), :gravity (momentum and acceleration), :life (adrenaline and mitosis), :light (blessing), :entropy (BE and Chaos Power), :aether (quintessence), :darkness (Liquid Shadow),  :air (sky blitz) and :earth (heavy armour and BB) already have some whereas :time, :water and :death still lack of it. I love the mechanic and I would rather see it in one of the 3 last elements. However, as it raises the attack, it can clearly not go in :time or :death  (or you would be able to play the dune scorpions or death-stalkers in mono-decks). I would transform it into a  :water card and call it "Tide" or "Wave" - It should fit thematically as well.

Offline PineappleTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4105
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Pineapple hides under a Cloak.
  • Master of Cake
  • Awards: Silver DonorSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg327500#msg327500
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 01:09:14 pm »
Version 2 Marker

Wants feedback from people who can compare cost/effect of unupped with other unupped cards.
Also wants feedback on possible elements.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg327583#msg327583
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 04:29:12 pm »
Currently the upgraded is better by 1quanta and 1damage. [5+3+1 vs 4+3+2+1+0]
Voodoo I miss calculated voodoo interaction. Voodoo will not be used because it causes a massive net heal and would at best add 4 damage.
[6 Voodoo +9 (531) damage -1 healing|5 Voodoo +10 (43210) damage -1 healing]
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline PineappleTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4105
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Pineapple hides under a Cloak.
  • Master of Cake
  • Awards: Silver DonorSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg330743#msg330743
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2011, 06:25:34 pm »
Version 3 Marker

So, I raised the cost back up to 3/2 after comparing it with blessing and taking note that you can use multiple Rises on one creature.
So no one has discussed else has discussed what element it should be, I've decided to keep it Life. ("Tide" doesn't really sound like something that makes a creature unlock hidden potential and then regress slowly.)

Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg330756#msg330756
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 06:45:06 pm »
I think water needs a buff card too.. but er. Couldn't you just keep the same name? its not like "rise" is particularly lifey as it were. :D Elevation is a possible upped name maybe? iunno. but yeah, life would then have 3 buff cards so I am for it being a water card.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg330757#msg330757
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 06:48:35 pm »
A rising wave would give a creature an advantage that would recede over time.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline PineappleTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4105
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Pineapple hides under a Cloak.
  • Master of Cake
  • Awards: Silver DonorSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg330764#msg330764
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2011, 07:07:09 pm »
But the receding of the advantage would stop once it reaches the original level.

And the card is lifey because many animals rise above their expectations in the presence of stress, but if you're too hasty then you might only fall down harder.

Offline SnoWeb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1575
  • Country: fr
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.SnoWeb is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: War #2 Winner - Team Entropy
Re: Rise | Improved Rise https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25625.msg331318#msg331318
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 06:35:51 am »
This mechanic in itself isn't particularly "lifey", IMO. We the adequately chosen name it could fit almost everywhere ( :fire Burst, :light Flash, :earth Eruption or what ever). In waves (specially those artificially started), the receding is beyond/under the original level (if you consider it to be the see/lake level). It is only after a while that the water stabilises itself and that it reaches its original flattened level. A "wave of power" or a "rising wave" (as OldTrees mentioned) would in this regard fit, IMO.

On an other hand, the animal rise above their expectations in the presence of stress that you describe correspond in my opinion to an adrenaline rush. This (as you know) has already been made into a card. This (as every drug) suffers a withdrawal (as you described) but will finally stabilise after a while (as the wave above).

I don't have a specific problem with this card being a life card. If you want to go on with it this way I won't argue against it. However, I consider that for a greater the game balance it is important to take into account not only the card itself but also its environment. As I said above, life has 2 buff cards and water none. Plus, this card being a water card would slightly strengthen the :water / :earth (think of warden) and  :water / :death (think of deathstalker) combos in a soft/subtle manner (which I like).

 

anything
blarg: