Reverse Summon | Reverse Summon

[rowcla]

NAME: Reverse Summon ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 2  TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Destroy target creature, its controller gains quanta equal to its cost	NAME: Reverse Summon ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 1  TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Destroy target creature, its controller gains quanta equal to its cost

ART: None yet IDEA: rowcla NOTES: Entropy version of reverse time! SERIES: None

[Pineapple]

But...destroying it is going a bit too far, isn't it? The more insta-kills introduced into the game, the more possible a "kill every creature in your deck before you kill me" deck is.

I'd make the effect something like "set target creature's HP to zero", so that he has double the amount of attacks per creature and can save the creature with buffs, etc.

[rowcla]

As far as i can see its already balanced though, considering how RT is in a way exactly the same as destroying a creature anyway this shouldnt be considered OP, I hardly even see what the problem in that kind of deck is anyway, It wouldn't be powerful as it would no doubt have very little manpower to support even with the control, and anyway, many of the cards (like this one) would give advantages for later to your opponent.

As i said it doesnt seem OP right now, so your solution would make it UP probably, especially since that would eliminate one of its key uses, furthermore it doesn't fit thematically.

Im not down refusing to say its OP, I merely want a more reasonable argument then this.

[Brontos]

If you add "and owner draws one card" then it would match the concept better.
Right now, a cheap insta-kill card is not my favorite thing to add to this game.

[rowcla]

If you add "and owner draws one card" then it would match the concept better.
Right now, a cheap insta-kill card is not my favorite thing to add to this game.

that would make this horribly under powered

Maybe instead of the quanta gain the owner draws? thoughts?
 

[Pineapple]

As far as i can see its already balanced though, considering how RT is in a way exactly the same as destroying a creature anyway this shouldnt be considered OP, I hardly even see what the problem in that kind of deck is anyway, It wouldn't be powerful as it would no doubt have very little manpower to support even with the control, and anyway, many of the cards (like this one) would give advantages for later to your opponent.

As i said it doesnt seem OP right now, so your solution would make it UP probably, especially since that would eliminate one of its key uses, furthermore it doesn't fit thematically.

Im not down refusing to say its OP, I merely want a more reasonable argument then this.

1. RT does not help me when my objective is to "kill every creature in your deck." As long as the opponent has quanta, he can summon one creature per turn, and his damage potential would never drop to zero.
2. Something you completely disregard when judging the power of "that kind of deck" is card advantage. Unless your deck is quanta heavy, me increasing your quanta production through the use of Reverse Summon would not help you in any way, since you have no cards to use that quanta for. In addition, most creatures (at least those with more than 5 HP) expect to be able to survive at least one CC spell. However, this card 100% destroys any creature, regardless of HP. With 6 of these in a deck, you are quite realistically negating 6 non-immaterial creatures in the opponent's deck.
3. There is a blurred line between "balanced" and "UP." Making it work one turn later doesn't make it UP, especially when it's a mechanic like this.
4. Eliminate a key use? One of its key uses is as CC. With my mod, it'd still do that. Another key use is to gain quanta. With my mod, it'd be even easier to gain quanta since you can just buff the creature before it dies and don't have to use it in a fate-egg rainbow.
5. Doesn't fit thematically? How is setting a creature's HP to zero less related to entropy or reverse summoning than outright killing a creature?

If you add "and owner draws one card" then it would match the concept better.
Right now, a cheap insta-kill card is not my favorite thing to add to this game.

that would make this horribly under powered

Maybe instead of the quanta gain the owner draws? thoughts?
 

It's already horribly overpowered, and even if the opponent draws it would still be overpowered. How did you figure that giving the opponent +1 card advantage would make it go from balanced to "horribly under powered"? Wouldn't you need to assume card advantage is important, and concede that this card is OP because it completely ignores card advantage?

[rowcla]

As far as i can see its already balanced though, considering how RT is in a way exactly the same as destroying a creature anyway this shouldnt be considered OP, I hardly even see what the problem in that kind of deck is anyway, It wouldn't be powerful as it would no doubt have very little manpower to support even with the control, and anyway, many of the cards (like this one) would give advantages for later to your opponent.

As i said it doesnt seem OP right now, so your solution would make it UP probably, especially since that would eliminate one of its key uses, furthermore it doesn't fit thematically.

Im not down refusing to say its OP, I merely want a more reasonable argument then this.

1. RT does not help me when my objective is to "kill every creature in your deck." As long as the opponent has quanta, he can summon one creature per turn, and his damage potential would never drop to zero.
2. Something you completely disregard when judging the power of "that kind of deck" is card advantage. Unless your deck is quanta heavy, me increasing your quanta production through the use of Reverse Summon would not help you in any way, since you have no cards to use that quanta for. In addition, most creatures (at least those with more than 5 HP) expect to be able to survive at least one CC spell. However, this card 100% destroys any creature, regardless of HP. With 6 of these in a deck, you are quite realistically negating 6 non-immaterial creatures in the opponent's deck.
3. There is a blurred line between "balanced" and "UP." Making it work one turn later doesn't make it UP, especially when it's a mechanic like this.
4. Eliminate a key use? One of its key uses is as CC. With my mod, it'd still do that. Another key use is to gain quanta. With my mod, it'd be even easier to gain quanta since you can just buff the creature before it dies and don't have to use it in a fate-egg rainbow.
5. Doesn't fit thematically? How is setting a creature's HP to zero less related to entropy or reverse summoning than outright killing a creature?

1. RT is pretty much the same as killing a creature, when you consider the fact that the player is losing there next draw it ends up virtually the same, If the deck you are suggesting is based around merely destroying every creature in the deck then I can hardly see that working with the stacks of weaknesses left against it (immortal creatures, fractal, larger decks, fire stall etc...)
2. If its quanta heavy then in the period of time when the low cost makes a major difference ill still have a lot of cards to play, keep in mind that the low cost only makes a difference early on
3. I was merely stating that if it is balanced now (as i believe it to be) then it would be UP in your situation
4. one of the key uses is being able to take out buffed creatures, without your change this would allow you to take turns or extra cards off your opponent like RT does
5. The theme right now is that it causes the creature to become quanta again, if it became quanta then why would still be alive?

[Manipul8r]

Why is this in Entropy?  Also, why is an instant kill card needed in this game when there are many damage/slow kill methods and reusable delays/freezes?  Before balance, these should be addressed.

Pretty OP right now though, significantly better than Reverse Time | Rewind except against some rush decks.  Burst quanta gain is only useful early on (see Immolation/Nova decks), so I'd suggest a stronger drawback and/or increased cost.  Maybe they gain double the quanta cost?

[pikachufan2164]

1. Unconditional standalone instant creature kill is taboo (note that Zanz made Shockwave + Freeze instakill only because it was a 2-card combo, and that only Freeze is available on a stick)
2. RT is more about draw denial than creature kill

[rowcla]

goodness, this card is getting negative feedback, i suppose theres no point in keeping it here then, is there any way of deleting threads?

[Xenocidius]

I don't think you can. I could, but there's really no need for that. Simply don't submit it for Crucible and the thread will die on its own.

Or you can try reworking the card into something else.

[TheManuz]

I don't think you can. I could, but there's really no need for that. Simply don't submit it for Crucible and the thread will die on its own.

Or you can try reworking the card into something else.

I'll support reworking, there is no need to kill this card.
You can bounce the creature back in hand, that would be a reverse summon! It has some use too, since it can stuff the opponent's hand, preventing him to draw if reaches 8 cards.
I cannot understand why is , though!