Pandora's Box | Pandora's Box

[Hermis0]

NAME: Pandora's Box ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 6 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Each player receives four random permanents.	NAME: Pandora's Box ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 4 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Each player receives four random permanents.

ART: Hermis0 IDEA: Hermis0 NOTES: Does not generate shields or weapons. Permanents are generated in-play, not to a player's hand. They are generated as though played from your hand this turn. SERIES:

[Flayne]

so what happens when the hand is full?
does it change the hand or it doesnt give anything?

this would be more useful for stalling or rainbow decks imo.

[Manipul8r]

I think he means they are put into play for each player.  It's a neat idea but way too random currently in my opinion, though I think it might work if it had some restrictions.  A mono/duo deck getting 4 pillars not of its elements versus a rainbow getting Sundial/Hourglass, etc, would be pretty crazy.  Why can't it make creatures?

How about: generates a random creature and a random permanent for each player.  Then in notes, specify ATK range for creature and that pillars can't be generated.

Or it could just generate permanents, but you might want to restrict it still.

[Flayne]

receiving the permanents could mean recieving them in hand.
thats what i thought.
this needs to be specified.

[moomoose]

i presumed it was to put them in play due to the no shields/weapons limitation.

either the cost is too low or the number of perms generated is too high, i would go with manip's suggestion of having it be 1 random permanent and/or random creature, cost would be appropriate.  sort of like a fate egg for permanents.  i had a similar thought in mind way back with this card http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12959.0.html .

[OldTrees]

So this randomly chooses from the list below 4 times per player? The average advantage from the User's entropybow against a duo might be worth 6 .
13 pillars
12 pendulum
Mind Gate
Unstable Gas
Nightfall
Graveyard
Soul Catcher
Sanctuary
Sundial
Hourglass
Shard of Gratitude

Fixed

[Sevs]

So this randomly chooses from the list below 4 times per player? The average advantage from the User's entropybow against a duo might be worth 6 .
13 pillars
12 pendulum
Mind Gate
Unstable Gas
Nightfall
Graveyard
Soul Catcher
Sanctuary
Sundial
3 Shards

2 of the shards are not permanents  and hourglass

[Hermis0]

The card would create permanents in play.

The reason the price isn't 300 quanta is because your opponent gets the same option for permanents (unless he's one of those silly FGs with the permanent slots all filled).  Like other random cards, this could go really well... or really badly.  Obviously, collecting a few pillars would not be as useful as Unstable Gas... but then you just might get lucky...... or your opponent would get the Unstable Gas, and you could be dead.

It's designed as a fun card for people who like Fate Egg -- there to create a little enjoyable chaos without breaking the game (hence, no weapons or shields).  On the flip side, it's not at all useless -- especially for the risk-taking rainbow deck willing who wants to conserve deck space by essentially packing 4 permanents in a single slot.

Notes updated with more details.

[YoungSot]

Getting a SoG would be strange, you don't normally get upgraded cards with unupped cards. Would the upped version create upped permanents? At first glance the large number of pillar/pends seems like it would make the chances of getting useful permanents too slim though, but perhaps the odds are better than it appears.
I like the idea though. Nice synergy with steal!

[Manipul8r]

The average advantage from the User's entropybow against a duo might be worth 6 .

Maybe this will help.  I ran some calculations for approximate average usefulness for a deck that isn't rainbow.

(2/12+8/12+2/12+2/12+1/12+1+1+1/12+2/12+1+1+2/12+2/12+1)/14 = 0.488 ~= 50% chance of a permanent being useful (not rainbow).

I used 2/12 chance of being useful for most of the ones with activation costs and pillars.  I used 8/12 for Pendulum but only 1/12 for Soul Catcher.  I gave Empathic Bond and others a 100% chance of being useful in any deck, though a bit less might be more accurate.

For a rainbow, I'd estimate at least 90% usefulness per permanent, which is a 66% chance of all four being useful.

That is why I suggested it generating one creature and one permanent.  A creature will have a more balanced chance of being useful between the two players, while a permanent can often be dead if you're not running rainbow.  To me, it just seems to currently have potentially far too much power for its cost and the fact it does not require any other cards to be powerful.

[OldTrees]

The average advantage from the User's entropybow against a duo might be worth 6 .

Maybe this will help.  I ran some calculations for approximate average usefulness for a deck that isn't rainbow.

(2/12+8/12+2/12+2/12+1/12+1+1+1/12+2/12+1+1+2/12+2/12+1)/14 = 0.488 ~= 50% chance of a permanent being useful (not rainbow).

I used 2/12 chance of being useful for most of the ones with activation costs and pillars.  I used 8/12 for Pendulum but only 1/12 for Soul Catcher.  I gave Empathic Bond and others a 100% chance of being useful in any deck, though a bit less might be more accurate.

For a rainbow, I'd estimate at least 90% usefulness per permanent, which is a 66% chance of all four being useful.

That is why I suggested it generating one creature and one permanent.  A creature will have a more balanced chance of being useful between the two players, while a permanent can often be dead if you're not running rainbow.  To me, it just seems to currently have potentially far too much power for its cost and the fact it does not require any other cards to be powerful.

That would be more useful if you multiplied each chance by the value (CastingCost+2)

Value
2|2 Pillar
2|2 Pend
7|6 MG
8|7 UG
5|6 Nightfall/Eclipse
6|5 Cloak
5|7 Boneyard/Graveyard
2|2 Soul Catcher
5|5Catapult/Trebuchet
7|6 Emphatic Bond/Feral Bond
6|5 Sanctuary
6|6 Golden Hourglass/Electrum Hourglass
2|2 Sundial
5|4 Flooding/Inundation
Chance of useful [duo] (I assume the 90% usefulness value is accurate for rainbow)
[11/121=1/12] Elemental Pillar/Permanent with an activation cost/Soul Catcher
[11/121/2+1/2=7/12] Pendulum
[1/2] Quantum Pillar
[1] Permanent without an additional cost
[1/121+22/121/2=1/11] Nightfall/Eclipse

My result assuming that all pillars total have 1/14 chance (1/14/13 chance each) is that the expected value per permanent is 2|2 for duo and 4|4 for a rainbow.
Net gain per permanent each is 2 quanta value. (assuming a rainbow vs a duo)
4 permanents each should cost 6 |5 +1 draw = 8 quanta value.

[Hermis0]

Well, I didn't do QUITE that well in stats.
Are you recommending that I boost the cost to 8 ?

I'm not seeing how since the card would give you an advantage against other deck types that it shouldn't be used.  Isn't the point of different cards to give advantages over different deck types???  Kinda like... sucks for Lava Destroyers if the other guy is running a Fire Buckler.

And yes, I do value the recommendations.