Poll

How much damage should be done per trigger event?

Cost of triggering card +2 (keep same)
0 (0%)
Cost of triggering card only
0 (0%)
Small fixed damage (1 to 4)
0 (0%)
Large fixed damage (5+)
1 (100%)
Other (please specify in thread)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 1

*Author

Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499423#msg499423
« on: May 16, 2012, 05:54:58 pm »
NAME:
Ockham's Razor
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
3 Aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
When a permanent or creature is played or changes type, its owner takes cost + 2 damage if a copy is not in play
NAME:
Ockham's Razor
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2 Aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
When a permanent or creature is played or changes type, its owner takes cost + 2 damage if a copy is not in play

ART:
OdinVanguard
IDEA:
OdinVanguard
NOTES:
Wikipedia link: Occam's Razor on Wikipedia
"pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate ("plurality should not be posited without necessity")" wikipedia

The permanent is stackable, but only the additional +2 damage is added.
E.g. if a player plays a photon with 2 of these in play but no other photons, they will take 4 damage.
By "or changes type", I am referring to effects like mutate or reverse time on skeletons / mummies.
Example: consider last situation (2 of these in play and a photon) a player casts mutate on the photon which then changes into an abomination. If no other abominations are in play, the owner of the abomination takes 5+4=9 damage.

SERIES:



Spoiler for Old Version:
NAME:
Ockham's Razor
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
8
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Duplicates of non-pillar cards are sent to bottom of owners deck and owner takes damage equal to cost.
NAME:
Ockham's Razor
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
6
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Duplicates of non-pillar cards are sent to bottom of owners deck and owner takes damage equal to cost.

ART:
OdinVanguard
IDEA:
OdinVanguard
NOTES:
Wikipedia link: Occam's Razor on Wikipedia

Technically the card is more about reductionism but I think it still fits the idea pretty well. The idea is that it forces players to use the minimum number of copies of a given card.

I originally was going to have it destroy all copies of each card beyond the first, but that seemed a little too powerful.

The mechanic works by cycling through each players hand and field. If more than one copy of a given card is found, excess copies are removed and put at the bottom of the owner's deck (the last ones drawn or played are removed first). Each time a card is returned to owner's deck, they take damage equal to its casting cost.
It should be quite effective as a counter to fractal and mitosis and will force players to rely on more than just spamming a single card, lest they face the razor's wrath.

This seemed to fit aether element best to me, but I am certainly open to suggestions.

SERIES:

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:10:41 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Offline EmeraldTiger

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499499#msg499499
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 08:05:11 pm »
I do not see how the mechanic is tied to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499549#msg499549
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 09:17:16 pm »
"Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor, Latin lex parsimoniae) is the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect" -Wikipedia

Essentially, it is coercing each player to use the fewest copies of each card possible.

...I'm open to changing the mechanic to fit the title better since that is more my goal, I'm just not sure how to do so better at this point.
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Offline AP579

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499556#msg499556
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 09:28:29 pm »
The problem is, this requires a large investment of aether, and a lot of aether decks have 4-6 copies of most cards.

Also, does it affect pillars...? I hope not.
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499567#msg499567
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 09:39:08 pm »
The problem is, this requires a large investment of aether, and a lot of aether decks have 4-6 copies of most cards.

Also, does it affect pillars...? I hope not.
*smacks head* forgot to put that in, no pillars and pendulums are exempt.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499579#msg499579
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 10:02:52 pm »
Updated
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline Anarook

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499611#msg499611
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 11:28:38 pm »
Mmmm might be a slight op- ofc this varies by the opponent's deck.
to break it down.
1) Field spell-both sides(Might count in favor of card, except that it's easy to work around-this serves little as a balancing factor)
2) Discretionary(only targets duplicates)
   2a) Duplicates are essentially killed - comparitive to eternity minus locking mechanic(cards are placed on bottom of deck)
   2b) Damage is dealt = sum of all removed cards' cost
3) Targets any card type(creature, spell, perm)
4) Affects hand as well

Before any discussion this has essentially 4 core mechanics to it. Already a bit overloaded.

As for balancing- a players deck generally contains multiple copies of each card usually ranging from 4-6(not counting pillars/pends)
-Most decks focus on using those multiple cards, many focus on getting out as many as possible.
--Furtheremore some decks focus on swarming using duplication effects.

This card wouldn't be used early on, its nature requires time for full effect(a point in its favor)
-however becasue it deals damage = to the sum of costs; the damage potential is outrageous+it has a built in instakill effect(see above)

Cards are also meant to be designed in a way that having multiple copies is typically waranted and often necessary.
This card would lose its utility after one use in most cases.

Personally I cant stand insta-kill cards. I know this is felt by many. Either way I have two suggestions----

1) Eliminate the removal effect.
or
2) Eliminate the damage effect.

Essentially you've got 2 cards shoved into one, pick one and stick with it.

I also reccomend changing the damage mechanic no matter what, set it to a specific value.

On a side note- I agree it needs a name change, I know what Occam's Razor is, I've done reports and research on it. It doesn't fit this card.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 11:30:52 pm by Anarook »
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499680#msg499680
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 02:16:11 am »
OK, new version is up. Major changes were made and it works in almost the opposite fashion now.
-Deals damage when new permanent or creature types are played
-Does not send cards to bottom of deck any longer
-Affects only the field, not player's hands
-lowered cost to make it viable since it will need to be used early to have significant impact

Is this a more balanced card now, and does it hold truer to its namesake?
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline mildlyfrightenedboy

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499696#msg499696
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 02:31:43 am »
This sounds like it would work very well with :aether 's Fractal, which would help minimize damage taken.
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499701#msg499701
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 02:34:03 am »
This sounds like it would work very well with :aether 's Fractal, which would help minimize damage taken.
I was thinking that myself. Mitosis too... It can be used very effectively with mutate and reverse time as well.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline Anarook

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Re: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499843#msg499843
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 05:16:28 am »
Interesting new effect with an even more interesting twist on the Plurality clause =P

Still say damage inflicted needs to be a set amnt and not dependent upon cost.- Would also agree with current card cost.
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R: Ockham's Razor | Ockham's Razor https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=40276.msg499859#msg499859
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 05:50:26 am »
I would make a weapon of it.
Razor sounds like a some kind of weapon to me.

 

anything
blarg: