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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389667#msg389667
« on: September 06, 2011, 04:32:32 am »
Quote from: Dragon Element
N - You cannot play this card unless you have exactly [no more than, no less than] N dragons on your side of the field. This card does not drain quanta, etc.
Morph | Morph (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30653.0.html)
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389672#msg389672
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 05:04:41 am »
This appears to be a pseudoelement (aka it has a theme that is being presented as an elemental theme and it does not require a 13th quanta pool)

1) Why do you think a Dragon theme is an Elemental theme rather than a series theme or merely an alternate cost mechanic theme?
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389677#msg389677
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 05:28:06 am »
This appears to be a pseudoelement (aka it has a theme that is being presented as an elemental theme and it does not require a 13th quanta pool)

1) Why do you think a Dragon theme is an Elemental theme rather than a series theme or merely an alternate cost mechanic theme?
Well, it saves space in the card text if I symbolize this card cost that does not fit in any of the quanta costs of any of the 12 elements.
Since I plan for all cards that cost Dragon quanta to be zero-cost cards, there's no reason to imply auto-mulligan obstruction and stuff.

Thematically, I have some ideas/mechanics that might not fit into exactly one element.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389706#msg389706
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 08:04:13 am »
Ah, that is classified as an Alternate Cost mechanic.
Also please note that quanta is a unit of energy that is expended. You are not talking about quanta.
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389726#msg389726
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 10:27:47 am »
Ah, that is classified as an Alternate Cost mechanic.
Also please note that quanta is a unit of energy that is expended. You are not talking about quanta.
Yes, this is an alternate cost mechanic series, but not "merely and alternate cost mechanic theme." The thing that defines this series is how it complements the one thing all the elements have in common (besides pillars/pendulums/nymphs): dragons. The thing that throws it off from Other and the 12 Elements is that the casting cost isn't quanta, it's a "fake quanta" or, in other words, a pseudoquanta that does not follow all the "rules" of quanta. In addition, since this type of casting cost cannot be used by cards that are actually in Other or one of the 12 Elements, it cannot just be a series of alternate cost mechanic cards that can be shoved into a thematic/flavorful template for each element.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389785#msg389785
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 02:06:57 pm »
While it is a casting cost that isn't quanta, that does not make it "fake quanta" or a "pseudoquanta" (both require the Alternate Cost mechanic to expend real quanta).
Every element can afford to cast these cards so I would personally categorize them as Alternate Cost, Other (unless the card's specific mechanical theme would dictate otherwise) which fits the generic dragon theme IMO.

Your intent/goals seem to line up exactly with what I would expect from a Thematically Designed Alternate Cost series.
(The only difference from what you have now is standardized terminology and normal card backgrounds)

In summary:
Its cost is not quanta but still is a valid alternative cost (though strange and hard to balance  :) )
Its cost can fit thematically into Other or any Element if the specific card has a sufficient elemental influence. ( :fire :fire :fire: Firebreathing: Deal 1 damage to target. Can be used multiple times per turn.) Shortbow's Air influence is not sufficient.
The Curators will probably still place it in the PseudoElement poll.

You might want to add reminder text about the Dragon Alt Cost for cards using this alternate cost along with another cost or ones that have room in the card text.
Ex: "You need [N] dragons to cast."
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389825#msg389825
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 04:06:32 pm »
You might want to add reminder text about the Dragon Alt Cost for cards using this alternate cost along with another cost or ones that have room in the card text.
Ex: "You need [N] dragons to cast."
This would probably help voters understand it, since few read the notes unless they spend the time to click on the card, but it may also leave them wondering if there's a separate quanta pool and whether cards that cost N but don't have that clause in their text don't have the same casting mechanic.

Offline dracomageat

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389842#msg389842
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 04:44:04 pm »
I would like to complain about your choice of symbol. The Kanji (Japanese/Chinese shared character set) symbol for dragon is "龍" (use cntrl+scroll wheel to zoom in on it), pronounced "Ryuu" (very hard to say correctly).

Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389845#msg389845
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 04:48:02 pm »
I would like to complain about your choice of symbol. The Kanji (Japanese/Chinese shared character set) symbol for dragon is "龍" (use cntrl+scroll wheel to zoom in on it), pronounced "Ryuu" (very hard to say correctly).
...And is very hard to recognize as anything but a dark blue blur on a 20x20 or 18x18 pixel elemental icon.

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389849#msg389849
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 04:51:59 pm »
I would like to complain about your choice of symbol. The Kanji (Japanese/Chinese shared character set) symbol for dragon is "龍" (use cntrl+scroll wheel to zoom in on it), pronounced "Ryuu" (very hard to say correctly).
It can also be pronounced Tatsu.
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Offline dracomageat

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Re: New Element: Dragon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=30658.msg389851#msg389851
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2011, 04:54:04 pm »
...And is very hard to recognize as anything but a dark blue blur on a 20x20 or 18x18 pixel elemental icon.
The text could be made a bit bigger but I see your point.

It can also be pronounced Tatsu.
Thankyou very much, I was beginning to wonder how the name "Tatsumasa" was dragon related.

EDIT: might I suggest "Ryuusei" as the name for a dragon bolt? It's japanese for a metor or falling star (hence it being a bolt) but the two kanji alone mean "Dragon" and "Sacred".

 

blarg: