Naiad|Oceanid [Water Creature]

[memimemi]

NAME: Naiad ELEMENT: COST: TBD TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 1|3 TEXT: : Purify	NAME: Oceanid ELEMENT: COST: TBD TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 4|4 TEXT: : Drown.  Target creature gets -1|-1 and is delayed for 1 turn.

ART: N/A IDEA: memimemi NOTES: Naiads, the embodied spirits of fresh water, are the essence of purity, cleansing the body, and soothing the spirits of all who visit their gentle streams and placid lakes. Oceanids, the spirits of the ocean's fury, unleash the passion of the tsunami, drowning any who dare defile the briny deeps. Naids: With the number of ways to accumulate poison in the game, having only one source of purification can be rather limiting, especially considering the situational nature of the spell card Purify.  By moving the effect to a creature's activated ability,  elementals have another way to deal with poison, one which can still (in a small way) be useful against decks not running poison at all. Oceanids: Because the ocean wants us all dead.    Designed as a solid creature, without overshadowing Puffer Fish or Arctic Crawler.  Drown mechanic adds to  's arsenal of delay tactics; also synergizes well with Permafrost Shield. PLEA TO THE COMMUNITY: Please help me determine a fair cost for this card.  Thanks! SERIES: None.

[poinl]

Naiad - cost i think should be about 3

oceanid should be about 4- 6

[JuneIsSunny]

i like naiad but oceanid looks really op.
maybe naiad should cost like 2 or 3  and the purify cost be 2 and then oceanid and be the same and naiad but only use 1 for purify

[memimemi]

i like naiad but oceanid looks really op.
maybe naiad should cost like 2 or 3  and the purify cost be 2 and then oceanid and be the same and naiad but only use 1 for purify

OP how?  Please, let me know your reasoning.

Naiad - cost i think should be about 3

oceanid should be about 4- 6;)

Okay, time to finally figure this out.  All figures and reasoning are taken from here.

Naiad:

ATK 1 (+1mod)
HP 3 (+0mod)
Elemental Bonus (+0 for  )
Skill (+2, as per Heal, Venom - comparable skills)

Total: 1 +2 = 3


Oceanid:

ATK 4 (+4mod)
HP 4 (+0mod)
Elemental Bonus (+0 for  )
Skill (+4 as per Congeal, Plague)(-1 for 2 ablility cost)(-1 for upgraded)

Total: 4 +4 -1 -1 = 6 .

Does that seem reasonable?

[Drake_XIV]

I'll assume you have proper reasoning for making the upgraded card different.

I'd personally hike Purify's cost to around 3 .  Minimum.  Reusable Purify is surprisingly very powerful as you can create a very high regen rate.  And screw many decks over aside from OTKs.

For Oceanid, I don't like the ability at all.  I'd remove the delay and make the debuff temporary.  Or delay for one turn and debuff by -1|-1.  As is, it's not exactly thematic and is OP in a sense.

As is, I'd put the costs at 9|10.  But with my suggestions, I'd say 5|6.

[memimemi]

I'll assume you have proper reasoning for making the upgraded card different.

Absolutely.  The difference is thematic; lakes upgraded to oceans.

I'd personally hike Purify's cost to around 3 .  Minimum.  Reusable Purify is surprisingly very powerful as you can create a very high regen rate.  And screw many decks over aside from OTKs.

So, then, each use of Purify should cost as much as slapping down an upped SoG, for less healing/turn?  Sure, it's powerful, but much less so than SoG, Sanctuary, or BH - all 3-Quanta healing, with extra abilities.  Raising the ability activation cost to 3 would lower the hard-cast of the creature to 2 .  Is that more reasonable?

For Oceanid, I don't like the ability at all.  I'd remove the delay and make the debuff temporary.  Or delay for one turn and debuff by -1|-1.  As is, it's not exactly thematic and is OP in a sense.

Delay is thematic with SoP, Congeal, and Ice Bolt.  I was looking at the ability as an Ice Bolt on a stick, with less total damage, but 100% chance to freeze for 1 less turn.

As is, I'd put the costs at 9|10.  But with my suggestions, I'd say 5|6.

How does your figuring of costs differ by so much from mine?  I'd like to know how you arrived at those numbers - was I missing something in my calculations?

Thanks for the suggestions!

Edit: missed a word

[Drake_XIV]

I meant for the ability change.

I suggested 3 because I was playing it off the unupped Purify, which Naiad would, in my opinion, overshadow.  Especially since it is reusable.  Especially considering you can have several Naiads, it kind of makes it important that you can't spam HoT [Healing over time] each turn.  You can adjust the stats accordingly to fit the cost as you feel after that.

Well, Drowning is the not the same as Freezing.  What I was thinking is that the debuff and affliction were temporary since even a being dragged underwater would resurface eventually.  And buoyant force is surprisingly strong...

For the initial cost, I'll agree, the 9|10 thing is overshooting it.  I do have a tendency to make cards cost too much.  4|7 seems a more reasonable set of stats.  It should be noted that the -1 to ability cost for the upgraded is usually only applied if the ability does not change when upgrading.

[esran]

the upped seems to step on octopuses toes while also being stronger. if the unupped can target players then its way OP and the ability cost should be raised a lot, to about 3 i should think.

[memimemi]

I meant for the ability change.

I suggested 3 because I was playing it off the unupped Purify, which Naiad would, in my opinion, overshadow.  Especially since it is reusable.  Especially considering you can have several Naiads, it kind of makes it important that you can't spam HoT [Healing over time] each turn.  You can adjust the stats accordingly to fit the cost as you feel after that.

Well, Drowning is the not the same as Freezing.  What I was thinking is that the debuff and affliction were temporary since even a being dragged underwater would resurface eventually.  And buoyant force is surprisingly strong...

For the initial cost, I'll agree, the 9|10 thing is overshooting it.  I do have a tendency to make cards cost too much.  4|7 seems a more reasonable set of stats.  It should be noted that the -1 to ability cost for the upgraded is usually only applied if the ability does not change when upgrading.

Okay, so if I up the cost of Naiad's Purify to 3 (4 is too much - Antimatter is only 4 on a Nymph), lower the length of Drowning delay effects to 1 turn, and possibly lower the Oceanid's stats to 2|4, would that be fair?

Oceanid would basically be a 2/4 Vanadium Warden, then - I would lower the hardcast cost to 4 (Warden+CP+2uses=  ; Oceanid +2uses = 8 ).  The ATK removal makes up for the -1 to HP removal.  Is that a bit better balanced?  Is it time to edit the OP, and hunt down some art?

the upped seems to step on octopuses toes while also being stronger. if the unupped can target players then its way OP and the ability cost should be raised a lot, to about 3 i should think.

Would the above changes make it better for you?

[Drake_XIV]

Can you update the OP first?  It's easier to rate it in card forme for me.

[memimemi]

OP updated, to reflect current status of the discussion.

[Drake_XIV]

I guess it's more or less balanced now.  I'm just uncomfortable by how blank Naiad is...