Four-Leaf Clover | Four-Leaf Clover (Lucky! Series)

[Werdbooty]

NAME: Four-Leaf Clover ELEMENT: Life COST: 1 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Lucky! Either summon a Rustler or a random creature you control gets an extra attack this turn.	NAME: Four-Leaf Clover ELEMENT: Life COST: 4  TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Lucky! Either summon a Rustler or a random creature you control gets an extra attack this turn.

ART: Images altered to some degree by Werdbooty. Image Source Image License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/) IDEA: Werdbooty NOTES: Potential to have the Rustler summoned with Adrenaline already attached. Might be too OP (when upgraded) with Feral Bond. SERIES: Lucky! Series: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19030.0.html Lucky! Analysis (by doublecross): http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19108.0.html

[Jappert]

I like this one best of your series (from the ones I've seen).

First of all the art is magnificent, second I like how both effects are positive and I'd love to see more Rustlers.

You could say this is OP when combined with Empathic Bond yes, but you could also say it has good synergy.

[Jappert]

Okay instead of editing my post, I quoted myself.... Yes, I am this good  Please remove this!

[kitty45]

Nice card i would love to see this added

[OldTrees]

The unupped looks balanced or slightly under par [worth .5-1 ?] an adrenal rustler would be too much though.
The upgraded version is hard to tell without playtesting.

[doublecross]

I don't think an adrena-rustler would be too much.


That would only do 4 damage, and can be blocked by even the weakest shield.

And, there is only a 50% chance of one being summoned.


I say, keep adrenaline.

[OldTrees]

I don't think an adrena-rustler would be too much.


That would only do 4 damage, and can be blocked by even the weakest shield.

And, there is only a 50% chance of one being summoned.


I say, keep adrenaline.

50% chance of a 3 +1card value would have to cost more than 1 +1card if paired with even the smallest alternative effect.
However adrenal rustler maybe only worth 2 +1card in which case it would be fine.

[doublecross]

Could you please clarify?

I would like to discuss this rationally, but am having trouble parsing that.

[OldTrees]

Could you please clarify?

I would like to discuss this rationally, but am having trouble parsing that.

Each point of average damage is worth 1 .
Life creatures all have a -1 discount to  cost.
The skill on the rustler is less valuable than normal because you cannot rely on getting a rustler.
So the value of
A Rustler result is 0 + 1card
An Adrenal Rustler result is 3 + 1card or perhaps 2 + 1card if the multiple turns sidenote acts like a debuff.

Dilution cards are based off the average value.
Cost: 1 + 1card = 50% value of option 1 + 50% value of option 2

If Adrenal Rustler is valued at 3 +1card and the other option is valued at 0 +1card then the average value would be 1.5 +1card which would round up to 2 not 1 .

If Adrenal Rustler is valued at 2 +1card and the other option is valued at 0 +1card then the average value would be 1 +1card which is the current cost.

[doublecross]

I agree except for one small consideration, which is that I do not think that dilution calculations should work like that.


Say there was a card that would either do momentum or gravity pull (50% chance of each).

You can see that this card would be less valuable than the average of the two values.


The fact that you cannot rely one either effect could very well make it cheaper.

[OldTrees]

I agree except for one small consideration, which is that I do not think that dilution calculations should work like that.


Say there was a card that would either do momentum or gravity pull (50% chance of each).

You can see that this card would be less valuable than the average of the two values.


The fact that you cannot rely one either effect could very well make it cheaper.

This is a bad example because the two effects conflict. If you would be happy with either effect (all the lucky series) the dilution would work by the value of the average result.

In the case with momentum and gravity pull there are more results to average because you would want to be targeting different things
Momentum on a creature that wants momentum 2 +1card
Gravity on a creature that wants momentum ~-1 -1card
Momentum on a creature that wants gravity pull ~-1 -1card
Gravity pull on a creature that wants gravity pull 2 +1card
Value of average result: .5 +0cards
As such it would theoretically cost 1-2 and have a draw a card effect attached.

[doublecross]

I know the two conflict.


However, I was doing this to illustrate that the dilution rule is not 100% effective or correct.


It also shows that the lack of reliability on either one effect should be considered.


Plus, already, not all cards are equal strength.

Even if the rustler w/ adrenaline effect is more valuable than your formula's suggest, that doesn't make it OP.


So, please answer this. Regardless of whether or not it fits with the formulas you have used so far, do you think that this card would be OP?